Steady voltage at 503 volts

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Was working on a 480 system, but have been reading a steady 503 volts on this motor. It is unusual but the motor is running still. Only time I run into voltage above the nominal is during peak hours and even then its very short lived.

Did a house once and it had a steady 250volts for a 240volt system.

Have any of you run into systems where the volts were higher than the nominal at a steady rate?
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Was working on a 480 system, but have been reading a steady 503 volts on this motor. It is unusual but the motor is running still. Only time I run into voltage above the nominal is during peak hours and even then its very short lived.

Did a house once and it had a steady 250volts for a 240volt system.

Have any of you run into systems where the volts were higher than the nominal at a steady rate?

If it is a NEMA motor they are designed to operate at +-10% of their NP voltage.

You stated that it was a 480v system but overlooked what the actual motor NP voltage was. It is common for motors to be 460v. If so 460x110% is 506V. As such 503v would just make it.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Was working on a 480 system, but have been reading a steady 503 volts on this motor. It is unusual but the motor is running still. Only time I run into voltage above the nominal is during peak hours and even then its very short lived.

Did a house once and it had a steady 250volts for a 240volt system.

Have any of you run into systems where the volts were higher than the nominal at a steady rate?

While not very common in residential I have had a few cases and in each case it was the same problem, a fault between couple of turns in the primary winding that reduces the turn ratio that causes the secondary voltage to rise, since the fault is just between the winding turns and not to ground or another phase it doesn't cause any circuit protection to open and can go unnoticed for a while with the only results being shorter life of incandescent lamps if the voltage is not to high, but I did have one where the voltage was over 284 volts line to line leaving a line to neutral voltage of 142 volts which did damage some electronic equipment as well as the furnace main control board.

Now for 3-phase industrial or commercial I would be more leaning toward a mis set tap if this voltage was close to the same on all three phases, the only legit reason I could see for this would be that at some point in the past there was a higher load that cause a low voltage problem and a lineman reset the tap to account for it but this load stopped being used or the utility upgraded conductors ahead of this transformer but didn't make sure to reset taps on down stream transformers, if the voltage is only from one phase which will show up between two phases when line to line readings are taken but line to neutral will only show it on one phase, then suspect a bad transformer primary as above.

What does sound strange is finding this at peek times when higher loads are used, as this problem should drop in voltage depending upon how stiff the supply is, but it would be steady for the most part if the fault between the windings makes a good connection and doesn't open from the vibration of the transformer.

If it is a NEMA motor they are designed to operate at +-10% of their NP voltage.

You stated that it was a 480v system but overlooked what the actual motor NP voltage was. It is common for motors to be 460v. If so 460x110% is 506V. As such 503v would just make it.

I think motors will tend to handle higher voltages much better then under voltage, lower voltages will cause more damaging pole slip and the motor will pull a much higher amperage, while higher voltages is not good the current will ramp up at much slower rate as the percentage of over volts goes up, universal (AC/DC brush motors) will exhibit a higher RPM on over voltage but generally handle it fairly well as we use to use veriac auto transformers to do just that back before we had adjustable speed drills.

But while its not a really bad problem it should be addressed with the utility if the transformers are utility owned, if not then a primary reading should be made to determine if you have a bad transformer or the wrong tap set or a higher then normal primary, so it can be corrected as over all life of equipment can be shortened and if this is a Y supply that has lighting on it it can shorten the life of the lamps and ballast.
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
Was working on a 480 system, but have been reading a steady 503 volts on this motor. It is unusual but the motor is running still. Only time I run into voltage above the nominal is during peak hours and even then its very short lived.

Did a house once and it had a steady 250volts for a 240volt system.

Have any of you run into systems where the volts were higher than the nominal at a steady rate?

That is a little under 5%. Think of the house voltage as 125 instead of 120.

It is a little high, but within tolerances.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
This is ANSI Standard C84.1 that many power companies are held to by utility commissions of the areas they serve.

ANSIC841.jpg
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
503, around here I wouldn't expect much less than 497 on most unloaded 480 volt systems. Voltage when loaded will depend on transformer, conductors (size and length), and amount of load.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
I think motors will tend to handle higher voltages much better then under voltage, lower voltages will cause more damaging pole slip and the motor will pull a much higher amperage, while higher voltages is not good the current will ramp up at much slower rate as the percentage of over volts goes up, universal (AC/DC brush motors) will exhibit a higher RPM on over voltage but generally handle it fairly well as we use to use veriac auto transformers to do just that back before we had adjustable speed drills.

But while its not a really bad problem it should be addressed with the utility if the transformers are utility owned, if not then a primary reading should be made to determine if you have a bad transformer or the wrong tap set or a higher then normal primary, so it can be corrected as over all life of equipment can be shortened and if this is a Y supply that has lighting on it it can shorten the life of the lamps and ballast.

Yes, the basic affects of 10% above the NP voltage is the starting and max torque increases up to 21%, slip is reduced up to 15-20%,, FL and 1/2 load efficiencies down about 3-5%, PF is reduced in the randge of 5-15%, FL current down slightly to up to 5%, starting current increases up to 10%, FL temp rise up to 10%, the OL capacity increases up to 21% and the motor noise may rise slightly.
Performance a 90% of NP voltage is realy not that desirable. Torques are down uo to 19%, motor slipes up 20-30%, efficiency doesn't change uch, PF increases slightly, FL current increases 5-10%, starting current done 10%, OL capacity down to 19%.

So and overvoltage would be more desirable.
 

stew

Senior Member
My electric motor shop in Seattle had an input voltage on out 460 volt system of 495 which I put a recorder on for a month prior to ordering a testing device fopr the shop. We only had a couple of smaller motors on the panel and the 460 was mostly used for testing purposes. The voltage never varied more than 2 or 3 volts during the test.We were ordering an autotransformer testing unit that needed to be special ordered with special taps to give us the required test votages that were required.. I have seen many many industrial plants over the years that have 490-500 volts at the buss and close to that at the motors that were served. Never had any real problems that I know of.
 
Thanks for all the input and info about higher voltages at other areas. This is one of reasons I use class 0 gloves rated at 1,000 volts for 480volt systems. Like I said in another thread, the industry practice is usually to use double or the next step up of rated gloves for the voltages you will be working on.

I can say I have not seen any damages as yet with the 503 volts, but its interesting to see it steady like this. I dont normally see it steady that high with a load running.
 
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