Urine powered generators

[tallgirl]

Established, yes. Irrelevant, no.


That same latitude is being extended to you.
The bottom line for a battery system, it's raison d'?tre, is to store energy. Volts times Amps times time.

That's all.

I have a 10kWh capacity battery bank. I have a constant power charger capable of delivering 500 watts. From a 50% state of charge, I operate the charger for 5 hours. What is the new state of charge?

I have a 200Ah capacity battery bank. I have a constant current charger capable of delivering 10 amps. From a 50% state of charge, I operate the charger for 5 hours. What is the new state of charge?

For the sake of selecting a voltage, assume a 48 volt nominal system using flooded lead acid batteries. The values were selected so that, to a first order approximation, they could be the same battery bank.

Show your work and explain your answers.

 

[Besoeker]

Show your work and explain your answers.

There's nothing to explain.
The bottom line for a battery system, it's raison d'?tre, is to store energy. Volts times Amps times time.

 

[tallgirl]

There's nothing to explain.
The bottom line for a battery system, it's raison d'?tre, is to store energy. Volts times Amps times time.

That's what I thought. You don't understand how batteries work.

 

[mivey]

How many volts does it take to charge 10 amps?

How many amps does it take to charge 10 amps?

Volts alone charge nothing. Amps alone charge nothing. It takes nothing to charge "to 10 amps" because amps is a rate, not a measure of charge so your questions are meaningless.

 

[mivey]

Fixating on power, as though energy = power * time is relevant to battery charging and discharging, is a mistake

Fixating on energy-only would be a mistake. However, energy is an important part of battery management. Not the only part but an important part. After all, batteries are used as energy-storage devices.

 

[mivey]

That's what I thought. You don't understand how batteries work.

Sour grapes? I'm quite sure that Besoeker, like most of us here, understands how batteries work.

It is you who seem to have an issue with the fact that energy and power also play an important role in the use of batteries. There are other important factors such as battery volumetric and gravimetric energy and power density. Round-trip energy efficiency is also important.

If you have an unlimited energy supply, alternate energy resources, and volume and weight are not important, I can understand why you do not think they are factors. However, it is a big world out there and there are many applications where these are important factors.

None of these factors alone are all-encompassing but you seem to be fixated on amp-hours and that simply is just part of the story.

 

[tallgirl]

Volts alone charge nothing. Amps alone charge nothing. It takes nothing to charge "to 10 amps" because amps is a rate, not a measure of charge so your questions are meaningless.

I've provided the voltage -- this is a 48 volt nominal system.

Now, answer the two questions.

 

[tallgirl]

Sour grapes? I'm quite sure that Besoeker, like most of us here, understands how batteries work.

Okay, answer the two questions.

None of these factors alone are all-encompassing but you seem to be fixated on amp-hours and that simply is just part of the story.

I fixate on amp-hours because they are far more constant, at a constant temperature, than watt-hours.

Consider the fact that if you double the charge rate, you more than double the amount of power required. This is because the higher charging rate, as a percentage of capacity, the greater the voltage elevation, and the longer the absorb state (this is a common misconception -- the higher the rate of charge, the longer absorption takes, not the shorter as many mistakenly believe). So, you doubled the charge rate during the bulk state and increased the total amount of energy required to recharge the battery. This doesn't make the battery hold more energy because the battery only holds as many AMP-HOURS as it does.

 

[Besoeker]

You don't understand how batteries work.

I do.
More importantly, I know what they are for.

 

[tallgirl]

I do.
More importantly, I know what they are for.

Good, you should have absolutely no trouble at all answering two very simple questions that anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of how batteries function can answer.

Y'all were given a chance a while back to back up your statements with hard science. "I know what they are for" isn't hard science.

 

[Besoeker]

Good, you should have absolutely no trouble at all answering two very simple questions that anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of how batteries function can answer.

The bottom line for a battery system, it's raison d'?tre, is to store energy. Volts times Amps times time.
That's it.
If you want to continue your silly "I know more than you about them" games include me out.

 

[ggunn]

The thing sounds like they are just sepreating the hydrogen from the water and making a fuel with it. The problem with that is the amount of electricity it takes for this process far exceeds the output of hydrogen.

Had a company here in town that was working on a process to seperate it so that they could sell it to the military so that they would always have a fuel source as long as they had water.

1. They blew up the building they were in.
2. They blew up the building they moved to and killed one of the sons.
3. They blew up the building they moved to again and maimed one of the sons and hurt one of the workers.

Not a very stable product to work with. Thats why the military made a bomb with it.

The workings of a hydrogen bomb have nothing to do with the chemical properties of hydrogen. The explosions about which you speak are chemical, not nuclear, explosions.

But yes, hydrogen is a hazardous substance to deal with. A company I used to work for had a facility for mixing high pressure gases, and they had plumbed hydrogen and oxygen to the same manifold separated only by valves. The only traces they found of the guy who turned the wrong valve that day were pieces of his hard hat.

 

[mivey]

But yes, hydrogen is a hazardous substance to deal with. A company I used to work for had a facility for mixing high pressure gases, and they had plumbed hydrogen and oxygen to the same manifold separated only by valves. The only traces they found of the guy who turned the wrong valve that day were pieces of his hard hat.

Wow. I heard stories about what would happen if cutting oil was not cleaned out of O2 piping. Missed the demo at the gas supply house where they shot O2 at oil on the ground to make the point.

 

[tallgirl]

Wow. I heard stories about what would happen if cutting oil was not cleaned out of O2 piping. Missed the demo at the gas supply house where they shot O2 at oil on the ground to make the point.

O2 isn't to be screwed with. The shipyard up the road from the one I worked at would periodically lose a welder or ship fitter to O2 related stupidity. They'd have the smarts not to dust themselves off with gas, but not realize O2 will make just about anything burn like it had been doused in gasoline.

 

[mivey]

O2 isn't to be screwed with. The shipyard up the road from the one I worked at would periodically lose a welder or ship fitter to O2 related stupidity. They'd have the smarts not to dust themselves off with gas, but not realize O2 will make just about anything burn like it had been doused in gasoline.

In a warning to not dust off with O2, I read that the O2 will "stick" in the clothing fibers and be a lingering danger. I have seen many welders do it though.

 

[K8MHZ]

The thing sounds like they are just sepreating the hydrogen from the water and making a fuel with it. The problem with that is the amount of electricity it takes for this process far exceeds the output of hydrogen.

Had a company here in town that was working on a process to seperate it so that they could sell it to the military so that they would always have a fuel source as long as they had water.

1. They blew up the building they were in.
2. They blew up the building they moved to and killed one of the sons.
3. They blew up the building they moved to again and maimed one of the sons and hurt one of the workers.

Not a very stable product to work with. Thats why the military made a bomb with it.

I followed up on that. So much irony:

Off-duty firefighter Timothy B. Larson, whose brother died in the June 2010 blast, was critically injured Tuesday when a tank containing volatile hydrogen exploded at the company owned by his father. He was being treated after reportedly losing an arm and leg.

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_18658205

 

[cowboyjwc]

I followed up on that. So much irony:



http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_18658205

Sad thing is I know Tim and his wife personally. I inspected the first business he and his beautiful wife opened when they moved here. His kid's played baseball in the league I was president of and I used their t-shrit silk screening business to order fall ball t-shirts and then they started helping us buy the hats and uniforms for the regular season. Good family that I think got lead astray by a snake oil salesman.

 

[K8MHZ]

Sad thing is I know Tim and his wife personally. I inspected the first business he and his beautiful wife opened when they moved here. His kid's played baseball in the league I was president of and I used their t-shrit silk screening business to order fall ball t-shirts and then they started helping us buy the hats and uniforms for the regular season. Good family that I think got lead astray by a snake oil salesman.

Very sad, indeed. My condolances to all.

Just curious. You said you inspected one of the businesses that blew up? Or am I reading too much into your post?

 

[cowboyjwc]

Very sad, indeed. My condolances to all.

Just curious. You said you inspected one of the businesses that blew up? Or am I reading too much into your post?

Yes you're reading to much in. Their first business was a t-shirt silk screeing business. The other business, they didn't do anything that required an inspection and even the FD decided that they didn't know enough about it to inspect it.