Question on PV verses High Efficiency wind turbines

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The desire is to power a single household with enough alternate energy to fully power the house plus and overhead of 20% to allow for loss due to Clouds or Wind. My concern is mostly cost of equipment and now it seems a lot of installs are going hybrid with both Solar and Wind. Would that require two separate wiring systems? I was thinking they should be able to feed the same inverter / battery bank. Any thoughts are appreciated.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
If you want to talk to a bunch of people with hybrid wind & PV systems, check out the Northern Arizona Wind & Sun forum:

http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/forum.php
Second that, but be advised that you can't just throw up a wind turbine anywhere and expect it to generate any usable power. Wind resources are much harder to evaluate than solar; you'll want extremely good wind data before you spend any money, and that could mean running your own wind study for a year or more at the precise location and height where you are considering mounting equipment. Also be advised that there are a lot of junk turbines out there that aren't worth the materials they are made from, so do your homework.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
Methinks you have a pretty lofty goal.

Most solar PV / wind systems are adjucts to other systems, the most prevalent being the POCO.

In order to have a totally non-POCO system there is going to be a need for some sort of non-renewable generation.

So, besides solar panels, wind turbines and batteries, you are going to need a (kind of purpose defeating) generator.

And, remember, batteries don't last forever. The HUGE bank you will need will have a life span of about 5 years. Less than 10, for sure.

Good luck. I see a system that is going to cost more than the house by the time you are done.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Methinks you have a pretty lofty goal.

Most solar PV / wind systems are adjucts to other systems, the most prevalent being the POCO.

In order to have a totally non-POCO system there is going to be a need for some sort of non-renewable generation.

So, besides solar panels, wind turbines and batteries, you are going to need a (kind of purpose defeating) generator.

And, remember, batteries don't last forever. The HUGE bank you will need will have a life span of about 5 years. Less than 10, for sure.

Good luck. I see a system that is going to cost more than the house by the time you are done.

In a former job one of the things I did was man a booth at trade shows and expos. When the tire kickers would come around I would always ask them, "What would you hope to accomplish with a (solar, wind, whatever) system?" The single most common reply was , "I want to get off the grid." As gently as I could convey it, my usual response was, "No, you don't."
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
In a former job one of the things I did was man a booth at trade shows and expos. When the tire kickers would come around I would always ask them, "What would you hope to accomplish with a (solar, wind, whatever) system?" The single most common reply was , "I want to get off the grid." As gently as I could convey it, my usual response was, "No, you don't."

I am a huge proponent of alternative energy, but I am also a realist with some actual training in the area.

Here are some things that I notice laypeople overlook.

When maintenance, repair or replacement is needed on POCO equipment, no matter how expensive, the customer doesn't need to come up with his or her share of the costs or go without power.

So to that effect:

Who gets to trod out into the snow to clean snow off solar panels in the dead of winter? Who gets to clean the pollen and tree sap off them in the spring and summer? If they are 'trackers', who gets to fix them and how much is that going to cost?

Who is going to do the maintenance on a wind turbine? Anything with moving parts is subject to wear and mechanical failure.

Who is paying for the replacement of the batteries, and who gets the fun job of changing them out?

If you are trying to be green, how does the use of dozens of lead acid batteries play into that role?

If there is a generator, of course fuel isn't free. And who gets to do scheduled maintenance on the generator to make sure it won't fail when needed?

How much would you pay a company to make sure your system stays working? That would be a service contract and insurance policy that would cover all fuel, parts and labor. How much a month do you think that is worth? So all you have to do is make a phone call and someone shows up and takes care of everything for you while you sit in the house. No matter if it's a blizzard or pourning down rain from a thunderstorm. No co-pay, you just keep paying your service contract as agreed. Scheduled maintenance would be scheduled and done for you automatically as part of the contract. The only time you would need to call would be in the event of an outage. I can see that being a bit pricey.

We learned that conservation is the best form of alternative energy. By taking what I learned in that class and applying it to my own home, I cut my energy use by over 30 percent. Considering the above as applied to my own house, no way would I make such a huge initial payment and then be responsible for the equipment to eliminate my electric bill.

So, what is solar and wind good for?

Well, in Michigan, wind is the up and coming thing for POCO level generation. They have the advantage of being able to put up 500 foot tall turbines that can make juice in wind as low as 3 mph.

I see solar on the POCO level is also booming in southern areas.

The bottom line is that the POCO can make reliable electricity by any means cheaper than the consumer. See how much it costs to run a NG generator to replace a few pennies worth of POCO power per kWh.

Solar panels at home that are grid tied, making use of the POCO for storage and primary power are as close as we are going to get for home based power that people won't balk much at, I am afraid to say.
 
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