Contractor doing electrical work

[subman]

I recently finished a Hurricane Sandy job where I rewired the first floor and installed a new service. About a Week later, the homeowner called me and told me a couple of outlets weren't working so I returned to investigate. I noticed that a new sliding door was installed in a room where there was not one before. I come to find out that this butcher removed the wire that ran across the room that feed those outlets and re installed it. The boxes weren't even nailed to the studs and he held the outlets to the wall by the covers. I'm thinking of taking legal action against him since the permit was taken out in my name. Looking for advice on what I should do. Thanks for the help

 

[infinity]

What State are you in?

 

[subman]

New Jersey

 

[mivey]

I'm thinking of taking legal action against him since the permit was taken out in my name.

The contractor obtained a permit under your name or are you talking about the permit for the service changeout?

If the former: legal up. He is making himself a liability for your business.

If the latter: the service permit did not cover his work. Get a new permit to fix the faulty wiring. Fix it. Charge for it. Move on. His stupidity is bringing you work.

Pursuits about protecting the general public from this guy is more of a moral dilemma than a business one and requires closer input.

 

[infinity]

I would document what you've found and speak to the building code official. Did they even have a permit for the new door?

 

[Hv&Lv]

I would document what you've found and speak to the building code official. Did they even have a permit for the new door?

I hear people all the time say that getting a permit is nothing but a money racket for the jurisdiction. I know some that would laugh at getting a permit for the installation of a door. Here is an excellent example of why permits are and should be required. Too many contractors tell the homeowners a permit isn't needed. Here is a case where whoever installed the door should be required to be financially responsible for the required corrections. Just my opinion...

 

[texie]

I hear people all the time say that getting a permit is nothing but a money racket for the jurisdiction. I know some that would laugh at getting a permit for the installation of a door. Here is an excellent example of why permits are and should be required. Too many contractors tell the homeowners a permit isn't needed. Here is a case where whoever installed the door should be required to be financially responsible for the required corrections. Just my opinion...

Can't argue with your thoughts. Requiring permits is just a good idea to help ensure that the contractor is competent and does things as required. After all, even a simple door cut in can involve some serious structural issues.
As a less government guy, I struggle with this. But then I see what incompetent hacks do to unsuspecting homeowners, I think well, some gov. oversight is needed.
In the OP's case, this sounds like somebody said, "gee, let's just do the electrical work under the permit number we see already here. We don't need to call a real electrician. Who's going to know?". Electrical work is the same issue, it needs to be done by trained and licensed people. If I caught somebody working under my permit and/or license, I would get to the bottom of it, as it could have serious repercussions.

 

[petersonra]

is a permit actually required to install an interior door in a non load bearing wall in NJ?

I'm thinking of taking legal action against him since the permit was taken out in my name.

Are you saying he took out a permit to install a door in your name?

 

[iwire]

is a permit actually required to install an interior door in a non load bearing wall in NJ??

Why would it not be required?

 

[John120/240]

I recently finished a Hurricane Sandy job where I rewired the first floor and installed a new service. About a Week later, the homeowner called me and told me a couple of outlets weren't working so I returned to investigate. I noticed that a new sliding door was installed in a room where there was not one before. I come to find out that this butcher removed the wire that ran across the room that feed those outlets and re installed it. The boxes weren't even nailed to the studs and he held the outlets to the wall by the covers. I'm thinking of taking legal action against him since the permit was taken out in my name. Looking for advice on what I should do. Thanks for the help

is a permit actually required to install an interior door in a non load bearing wall in NJ?



Are you saying he took out a permit to install a door in your name?

I think what happened was: subman gets electrical permit for his work. The the butcher of a carpenter installs a sliding door and in the process moves two outlets. Then subman gets called back to repair work done by the butcher carpenter.

At the least the carpenter should pay for subman's repair bill.

 

[mjf]

I recently finished a Hurricane Sandy job where I rewired the first floor and installed a new service. About a Week later, the homeowner called me and told me a couple of outlets weren't working so I returned to investigate. I noticed that a new sliding door was installed in a room where there was not one before. I come to find out that this butcher removed the wire that ran across the room that feed those outlets and re installed it. The boxes weren't even nailed to the studs and he held the outlets to the wall by the covers. I'm thinking of taking legal action against him since the permit was taken out in my name. Looking for advice on what I should do. Thanks for the help

is a permit actually required to install an interior door in a non load bearing wall in NJ?



Are you saying he took out a permit to install a door in your name?

One can remove and replace a door without a permit, but not cut in a new door. Doesn't sound to me like it was an interior door. Building inspector wants to see proper framing (header, jack and king studs), insulation, etc.

 

[petersonra]

Why would it not be required?

Because a lot of places do not require permits for a lot of things.

If I want to put up a fence, I have to get a permit. Who knows why.

Most repairs don't require a permit.

A shed < 100 sf does not require a permit, but any bigger does.

Some pools require a permit, some don't.

The criteria seems to be around things that might increase the property value. They want to raise one's RE taxes any chance they get.

 

[readydave8]

Highway 441 runs north and south from my location.

A 20 minute drive south takes me to a town where I had to pull a permit for house remodel, interior painting and exterior deck repairs, less than 5k total.

A 20 minute drive north takes me to town in a county with no permits or inspections, only permit required to build a new house is septic tank permit. No permits or inspections on the new house I'm wiring in that county.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Highway 441 runs north and south from my location.

A 20 minute drive south takes me to a town where I had to pull a permit for house remodel, interior painting and exterior deck repairs, less than 5k total.

A 20 minute drive north takes me to town in a county with no permits or inspections, only permit required to build a new house is septic tank permit. No permits or inspections on the new house I'm wiring in that county.

What is done to keep the tradesmen honest and competent?
I suppose there is a licensing authority that will take complaints?

 

[mivey]

What is done to keep the tradesmen honest and competent?
I suppose there is a licensing authority that will take complaints?

Up in the hills they take care of these problems on their own.

 

[petersonra]

What is done to keep the tradesmen honest and competent?
I suppose there is a licensing authority that will take complaints?

does permitting and inspections keep or make them honest or competent?

 

[kwired]

Here is a case where whoever installed the door should be required to be financially responsible for the required corrections. Just my opinion...

Maybe so, but as the electrician, I don't really care as long as I get paid. My work is between myself and the owner, unless the carpenter called me in then it may be between me and the carpenter. Since this carpenter did the work/damage that is between him and the owner. Owner should maybe see if the carpenter is willing to do something about the problem before hiring a third party to fix it, but sounds like he is ignorant enough about electrical work that this is not likely.

Can't argue with your thoughts. Requiring permits is just a good idea to help ensure that the contractor is competent and does things as required. After all, even a simple door cut in can involve some serious structural issues.
As a less government guy, I struggle with this. But then I see what incompetent hacks do to unsuspecting homeowners, I think well, some gov. oversight is needed.
In the OP's case, this sounds like somebody said, "gee, let's just do the electrical work under the permit number we see already here. We don't need to call a real electrician. Who's going to know?". Electrical work is the same issue, it needs to be done by trained and licensed people. If I caught somebody working under my permit and/or license, I would get to the bottom of it, as it could have serious repercussions.

I don't quite get the "lets do the work under someone else's permit" theory. If they did just that, where are the inspections they never called for? It seems pretty clear to me the guy did not get a permit for what he did and there coincidentally was another permit open for other work by someone else.

What is done to keep the tradesmen honest and competent?
I suppose there is a licensing authority that will take complaints?

Not much. Here electrical is about all that gets inspected, especially when talking about single family dwellings or farm wiring, because electrical AHJ is statewide. Most other trades have little or no permitting processes or inspections. Some guys are very professional and try to do the right thing, others are just masters at getting by even if they do know what they are doing, they will do it as cheap as possible. They only get away with bad installations for so long and then their horror stories begin to go around when things begin to fail. It is kind of Darwin's theory in a way.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

Below is from the Uniform Construction Code listing ordinary maintenance that does not need a permit in NJ. Since it isn?t fitting in the same opening it would require a permit.

? 5:23-2.7 Ordinary maintenance
(a) Ordinary maintenance to structures may be made without filing a permit application with or
giving notice to the construction official.

v. The installation and replacement of any window or door, including garage doors, in the same
opening without altering the dimensions or framing of the original opening. This shall include storm
windows and storm doors. The installation and replacement of means of egress and emergency
escape windows and doors may be made in the same opening without altering the dimensions or
framing of the original opening, and shall not reduce the required height, width or net clear opening
of the previous window or door assembly;

Before I was an inspector I was a contractor and I appreciated inspectors that did their job. I could not fairly compete with contractors that cut corners on the code to provide cheap work. Some of these contractors would tell customers that they could always be cheaper then whatever bids the customer already had. Many inexperienced customers fell for this and the work was below code standards. With permits these contractors were required to make free repairs to their installations. Not having these constant run ins with inspectors their poor work ethic help increase my reputation and keep me busy. This would have been less likely and less protection for the customer without inspections.

 

[subman]

Thanks for the reply guys. As John 120/240 said the contractor (carpenter) took it upon himself to do electrical work on his own without contacting me. I won't have know if it wasn't for the call I received from the homeowner about outlets not working. Update .... I contacted him today and informed him that I was very unhappy with what he did and that he was risking my license by his actions. I told him I was going to repair his shotty work and bill him. He had the nerve to tell me to give him an estimate first. I'm considering reporting him to town officials and the NJ electrical board. I don't even think this guy has a home contractors license and I'm afraid I'm going to get stiffed when it gets time to get paid. Any suggestions on how to get my money from this guy?

 

[mivey]

Thanks for the reply guys. As John 120/240 said the contractor (carpenter) took it upon himself to do electrical work on his own without contacting me. I won't have know if it wasn't for the call I received from the homeowner about outlets not working. Update .... I contacted him today and informed him that I was very unhappy with what he did and that he was risking my license by his actions. I told him I was going to repair his shotty work and bill him. He had the nerve to tell me to give him an estimate first. I'm considering reporting him to town officials and the NJ electrical board. I don't even think this guy has a home contractors license and I'm afraid I'm going to get stiffed when it gets time to get paid. Any suggestions on how to get my money from this guy?

Your money should come from the homeowner, not the carpenter.