2 pole 2 throw transfer switch bonding

[ctunison]

I want to install a 100 amp double throw double pole transfer switch in between the utility meter and the main panel(100 amp 120/240 1 phase ) to feed from both the utility as well as a generator, the generator has a L 14 30 cord and the nuetual and the ground are bonded at the generator my question is (1) Do you bond the common neutual conection (non switched) in the the transfer switch to a ground rod (2) then do you have to run 4 wires to your panel (phase 1 and 2 ,,a nuetual and a ground) and then separate your grounds and isolate the nuetuals in the panel,also ive been told there is a danger of a ground circulation loop from the generator to the transfer switch i personally don't completly understand that terminolgy also is it neccessary to ground the generator I have got a lot of different answers from a lot of people and it has become very confusing PLEASE HELP WITH THE ANSWERS YOU GENERATOR GURU'S

 

[Smart $]

I want to install a 100 amp double throw double pole transfer switch in between the utility meter and the main panel(100 amp 120/240 1 phase ) to feed from both the utility as well as a generator, the generator has a L 14 30 cord and the nuetual and the ground are bonded at the generator my question is (1) Do you bond the common neutual conection (non switched) in the the transfer switch to a ground rod (2) then do you have to run 4 wires to your panel (phase 1 and 2 ,,a nuetual and a ground) and then separate your grounds and isolate the nuetuals in the panel,also ive been told there is a danger of a ground circulation loop from the generator to the transfer switch i personally don't completly understand that terminolgy also is it neccessary to ground the generator I have got a lot of different answers from a lot of people and it has become very confusing PLEASE HELP WITH THE ANSWERS YOU GENERATOR GURU'S

To be 100% compliant, it appears your generator is less than 15kW, so per UL listing requirements (assuming the genie is UL listed). You must switch the neutral and make the generator a separately derived system.As long as everything regarding the premises wiring is properly grounded and bonded, no additional electrodes need be added for the generator.

If installing between utility meter and main panel, a "suitable for use as service equipment" (SUSE) transfer switch will be required, which means this will also serve as the service disconnecting means... and yes, this is where the main bonding jumper must be located.

 

[Smart $]

PS: Welcome to the forum :thumbsup:

 

[ctunison]

Thanks for the welcome yes the switch is suitable for service use the portable genny is only 6500 watts but we are aware that we have to shed some load so not to overload the genny also this subject must be a tough one because it had 96 looks and only one person posted a reply

 

[Smart $]

... this subject must be a tough one because it had 96 looks and only one person posted a reply

Not really a tough one IMO. I think it's just no one wants to tell you using a two-pole transfer switch isn't compliant, even though it is a common installation.

 

[Strathead]

To be 100% compliant, it appears your generator is less than 15kW, so per UL listing requirements (assuming the genie is UL listed). You must switch the neutral and make the generator a separately derived system.As long as everything regarding the premises wiring is properly grounded and bonded, no additional electrodes need be added for the generator.

If installing between utility meter and main panel, a "suitable for use as service equipment" (SUSE) transfer switch will be required, which means this will also serve as the service disconnecting means... and yes, this is where the main bonding jumper must be located.

Please enlighten me with a reference about this 15KW and UL listing you refer to. Is this something you will find in the installation manual for the 15KW transfer switches or what? That is not something I have every heard about. I haven't really been involved in situations where I would have been concerned.

 

[Smart $]

Please enlighten me with a reference about this 15KW and UL listing you refer to. Is this something you will find in the installation manual for the 15KW transfer switches or what? That is not something I have every heard about. I haven't really been involved in situations where I would have been concerned.

I understand your non-concern :happyyes:

Click on the following for a post that quotes the UL Whitebook...

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=150449&p=1452733#post1452733

Chances are, this will not be in the instruction manual, at least not verbatim. Likely what will be in instruction manual is a statement on installation to local and national codes.

 

[Strathead]

I understand your non-concern :happyyes:

Click on the following for a post that quotes the UL Whitebook...

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=150449&p=1452733#post1452733

Chances are, this will not be in the instruction manual, at least not verbatim. Likely what will be in instruction manual is a statement on installation to local and national codes.

"I see!", said the blind man (but he was obviously lying)! That is in reference to "portable generators" and I can see the sense in it. First question, do those little "select the load" manual transfer switches break the neutrals and the hots for each circuit?

Second, I double checked the OP and he didn't say the generator was portable, and I am not sure what is required for it to be portable, so does it have to be portable, just because it has a connector? Or is the designation a UL thing also? My first impression is a Generator on wheels is portable, one that is on a skid question mark, one that isn't either definitely on portable. If you know please clarify. This is a good day, I am learning something before I mess it up.

 

[Smart $]

... First question, do those little "select the load" manual transfer switches break the neutrals and the hots for each circuit?

I don't know firsthand, but I've been told they do not.

Second, I double checked the OP and he didn't say the generator was portable, and I am not sure what is required for it to be portable, so does it have to be portable, just because it has a connector? Or is the designation a UL thing also? My first impression is a Generator on wheels is portable, one that is on a skid question mark, one that isn't either definitely on portable. If you know please clarify. This is a good day, I am learning something before I mess it up.

I'm not going to debate what is or is not a portable generator. IMO, it is what it is listed, labeled, or otherwise identified as by the manufacturer or testing agency. As noted in my first post to this thread, I said assuming the gennie is UL listed [as a portable generator].

IMO, 702.11(B) provides an out for installing as a nonseparately derived system if not listed by UL or the UL standard, or its equivalent, for a portable generator.