Induction Lighting vs. LEDS

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hydeisland

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San Diego,CA
Hey All,

Just wondering everybodys thoughts on induction lighting vs. LED. I have a client who owns a gas station and wants to replace his metal halide canopy fixtures with induction type. This is the first time I ve been met with an induction light request,I told him my opinion and it almost turned into a debate so I cut it off, what he wants is what he gets. Just wondering what others opinions is on induction lighting. I went to 2 of my suppliers and they tried talking ME out of it, but since LEDs are twice the price I see they may be a little biased. Thanks guys!
 
Hey All,

Just wondering everybodys thoughts on induction lighting vs. LED. I have a client who owns a gas station and wants to replace his metal halide canopy fixtures with induction type. This is the first time I ve been met with an induction light request,I told him my opinion and it almost turned into a debate so I cut it off, what he wants is what he gets. Just wondering what others opinions is on induction lighting. I went to 2 of my suppliers and they tried talking ME out of it, but since LEDs are twice the price I see they may be a little biased. Thanks guys!

Induction beats LED. At least for now.
 
Induction Vs LED

Induction Vs LED

Guys,
You have an excellent point and I am wondering who told the client about Induction... it is the best kept secret in the lighting world.

I will try not to be a sales man and abide by the rules of the forum. But I do have to warn I am prodigious but fair to LED. I have LED in my house but I am not trying to light a pasture with it. The ones over my sink rock!

Yall hit on the single best selling point of induction price. Induction especially retrofit kits are a fraction of the cost of LED. And now that we have a large selection of socket based retrofit kits the market growing exponentially.

I will try not to bore yall with history but it helps to understand the products and growth.

Induction has been around for many years as a lighting alternative to HID. Then comes along LED. Energy prices increase at the same time lighting was no longer seen as a fixed expense. Consumers get introduced to LED and the thousand dollar light fixture all the sudden the Phillips induction QL @ 800 bucks is a good deal!

Fast forward 4 yrs..LED is everywhere, it's sexy and the new thing...but they ain't giving it away. Consumers accept the costs and look to the future. The whole time Induction is sitting in the wings, growing and gaining acceptance globally. Products are improving and economies of scale kick in.

In the mean time the commercial market is getting to end of live on HID and wants to get in the LED market for all the right reasons. THEN the price knocks them right on their collective butt. The next question is always "What else do you have?"

The answer is Induction lighting; 60 to 100, 000 hours, UL approved, retrofit kits at a 1/3 of the cost of LED. If new fixtures @ 50%.
Add in several large suppliers of Induction products servicing the North American market gaining some real traction.

TODAY the single largest obstacle to induction acceptance has been overcome is putting round pegs in square holes and having a quick easy install that the customer can easily understand. Let me back up here a bit and lay some more history in ya.

First generation Induction was/are the circular, square, and ball QL type lights. now these are great designs and are more than tried and true designs and used everyday in new fixtures. But retrofitting current fixtures is a challenge to say the least.

Second generation Spherical high wattages with a e40/Mogul base sockets is now available. These are externally ballasted and can fit into most fixtures. Now we have a 200w e40 base kit with an external ballast and retrofitting the fixture is actually less labor than replacing existing parts. Just gut the fixture's electrical and install the 5 wire ballast. 2- going to the lamp and 3- on the business side.

Oh yeah still a 1/3 of the cost of LED.

Now don't get me wrong it is not all rainbows and unicorns. The market still has the same challenges as LED in many ways.

  • Fly by night jack wagons selling stuff that just don't work or is not in stock.
  • Supply lines are long and the electrical supply house depend on their vendors to stock product. See point above
  • MANY under funded start ups or uneducated field reps over promising and under delivering.

The single largest challenge to Induction is education. Electrical supply house are fragmented, franchisees and like every other business having to do more with less so education is very limited to the troops in the trenches.

I would like to know who tried to talk you out of induction. I bet it was one of the electrical supply houses.

Sorry about the long post but once I get going... So Yes Induction is better than LED when you need cheap raw horse-power.
 
Induction retro-fits save energy and cost less than LED

Induction retro-fits save energy and cost less than LED

There are many advantages of induction over LED, Induction cost is less than half of LED. Induction is proven to last 100,000 hours, LED last 50,000 hours. Both have higher lumen maintenance than HID and much better color rendition. I know of one manufacturer in the Detroit area who makes retro-fit kits that retro-fit the most popular 320W MH canopy light with a 135W induction kit with great results.

Hey All,

Just wondering everybodys thoughts on induction lighting vs. LED. I have a client who owns a gas station and wants to replace his metal halide canopy fixtures with induction type. This is the first time I ve been met with an induction light request,I told him my opinion and it almost turned into a debate so I cut it off, what he wants is what he gets. Just wondering what others opinions is on induction lighting. I went to 2 of my suppliers and they tried talking ME out of it, but since LEDs are twice the price I see they may be a little biased. Thanks guys!
 
Both good ideas

Both good ideas

We have done four induction retrofits. They all look good and were more cost effective.
Each of ours was a product listed for the fixture body we put it in. The manufacturers can provide this.
One defective out of about 220 pieces.
We have done about eight LED new fixture installs. They all look good.
 
There are many advantages of induction over LED, Induction cost is less than half of LED. Induction is proven to last 100,000 hours, LED last 50,000 hours. Both have higher lumen maintenance than HID and much better color rendition. I know of one manufacturer in the Detroit area who makes retro-fit kits that retro-fit the most popular 320W MH canopy light with a 135W induction kit with great results.

Actually both LED and Induction have lower lumen maintenance than either HPS or MH. They do last longer but percentage-vise they loose more of theri light output @ say 70-80% of life than HID's.

Another point in use of LED versus others is the power supply. I don't know when the masses of non-linear power supply will start showing up on the harmonic profile and industrial settings it is going to be proportionately miniscule, but it could be an issue in some commercial or institutional settings.
 
Actually both LED and Induction have lower lumen maintenance than either HPS or MH. They do last longer but percentage-vise they loose more of theri light output @ say 70-80% of life than HID's.

I guess we learn something new everyday. I knew LED's had a lower lumen maintenance but I thought induction was higher.

We recently had a job where we threw around retrofitting 400 watt MH with induction but in the end went with new 4 lamp T5's in a fabricating shop-16 foot ceiling. Real pleased with the way that turned out. I have to say, suppliers we work with have actually been pushing induction for the last 1.5 years.
 
I guess we learn something new everyday. I knew LED's had a lower lumen maintenance but I thought induction was higher.

We recently had a job where we threw around retrofitting 400 watt MH with induction but in the end went with new 4 lamp T5's in a fabricating shop-16 foot ceiling. Real pleased with the way that turned out. I have to say, suppliers we work with have actually been pushing induction for the last 1.5 years.

You are correct, induction has better lumen maintenance than LED.

I think induction retrofit in your case would have been a better choice as you could have kept the fixture, whereas in the case of T-5 retrofit you change the entire fixture. The relamping cost of 16' ceiling could cost a pretty penny. Clear case for group relamping.
 
You are correct, induction has better lumen maintenance than LED.

I was under the assumption induction was higher than MH.

I think induction retrofit in your case would have been a better choice as you could have kept the fixture, whereas in the case of T-5 retrofit you change the entire fixture. The relamping cost of 16' ceiling could cost a pretty penny. Clear case for group relamping.

The thinking was if even 1 lamp burns out per fixture it should not be too noticeable till there are quite a few out and then go in and replace all the shot ones--I think thats what you meant on group relamping.
 
I was under the assumption induction was higher than MH.



The thinking was if even 1 lamp burns out per fixture it should not be too noticeable till there are quite a few out and then go in and replace all the shot ones--I think thats what you meant on group relamping.

At some point you determine when lamps should be replaced, but you change out all lamps in all fixtures. Working or not.
 
At some point you determine when lamps should be replaced, but you change out all lamps in all fixtures. Working or not.

Correct. It is also important that you purchase your tubes in bulk and the same catalog number, so that there is a good chance that all your tubes come out of the same manufacturing batch, so they have the same failure rate, color rendering and lumen depreciation.
 
Correct. It is also important that you purchase your tubes in bulk and the same catalog number, so that there is a good chance that all your tubes come out of the same manufacturing batch, so they have the same failure rate, color rendering and lumen depreciation.

Struck a funny bone there--the first case had a very consistent failure rate--it fell off the scaffold--12 foot drop or so--they all failed.
 
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