Calories?

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Aleman

Senior Member
Location
Southern Ca, USA
Can someone explain calories in a way that even I can understand? I am trying to get a handle on the level of hazard I am sometimes exposed to. Calories don't register with me.
I occasionally work with live 460V. Mostly that would involve changing or installing a breaker, or troubleshooting with meters etc. From what I gather, a calorie is the potential energy that can be delivered
to an area by way of a fault? Is that right? Say I was working on a 20amp 460V circuit. Does that equate to some level of calories?
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Can someone explain calories in a way that even I can understand? I am trying to get a handle on the level of hazard I am sometimes exposed to. Calories don't register with me.
I occasionally work with live 460V. Mostly that would involve changing or installing a breaker, or troubleshooting with meters etc. From what I gather, a calorie is the potential energy that can be delivered
to an area by way of a fault? Is that right? Say I was working on a 20amp 460V circuit. Does that equate to some level of calories?
No. The energy in calories depends on the possible fault current, time, and voltage from a fault before any protective devices kick in, not the normal load rating of a circuit.

To maybe give you a better feel for what is being described, a calorie is the energy that is required to heat one gram (one cubic centimeter) of water by one degree C. The PPE levels are expressed in terms of calories per square centimeter.
Based on that, a 10 calorie/cc flash will apply enough energy to each square centimeter of your skin to raise the temperature of that area of your body, 1 centimeter deep, instantly by 10 degrees C. Since the heat will actually be concentrated very close to the skin, the temperature rise and resulting burns will be a heck of a lot worse.
Assuming your skin to be 2mm thick, 10 cal/cc will raise unprotected skin temperature by 50 degrees C, on its way to doing damage below that layer. Note that raising the temperature by 50 C is a lot worse than coming in contact with 37C + 50C = 188 F water and that in turn is an instant third degree burn.

You may find some other way of visualizing it to work better, but that does well for me.

Another helpful comparison may be that 1 calorie is about four Joules, and one Joule equals one Watt-second. And, again, the PPE calculation is based on calories per cc. So one cal/cc squared is about 26 watt-seconds per square inch of your skin. But that is not a graphic to me.

A third comparison is that one Cal/cc-sq. = 4 Joules per cc squared is the upper limit of medical laser treatment for tattoo removal!
 
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Aleman

Senior Member
Location
Southern Ca, USA
Thanks for the reply GoldDigger. So I see calories are a measure of thermal energy. I was looking at the NFPA 70E hazard level risk chart. How does one go about
figuring out what the risk level is in a given situation?
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
I was looking at the NFPA 70E hazard level risk chart. How does one go about
figuring out what the risk level is in a given situation?
People take courses and then afterward pay for software to do that. The rules for calculation are spelled out in the standard, I believe. But knowing how to get the input numbers and assign all of the other applicable factors makes it both an art and a science. :)

Some of the members with experience in that specialty may come up with a few examples of different situations for you. I can't.
 

Aleman

Senior Member
Location
Southern Ca, USA
People take courses and then afterward pay for software to do that. The rules for calculation are spelled out in the standard, I believe. But knowing how to get the input numbers and assign all of the other applicable factors makes it both an art and a science. :)

Some of the members with experience in that specialty may come up with a few examples of different situations for you. I can't.


How about this? Changing a breaker in a hot 460V panel. What level gear would most of you wear? That's all I really need to know because that is as exposed as I ever get besides using a meter
to troubleshoot control panels. Speaking of which, do people wear any gear just to take voltage/amperage readings in a hot panel?
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Thanks for the reply GoldDigger. So I see calories are a measure of thermal energy. I was looking at the NFPA 70E hazard level risk chart. How does one go about
figuring out what the risk level is in a given situation?

First you have to understand you can't just use the chart, you need to read the notes and verify the system falls withing the limits listed for fault current and clearing time.

The tables list a HRC, that HRC tells you what PPE is required for those tasks. The HRC levels are somtimes determined by the Incident energy (Ei) from an arc flash study, but not in the tables, the HRC's in the tables are simply guesses, educaed guesses, but still a guess.

HRC 0 is for 1.2 calories per square CM (Cal/cm2) and less.

To answer your question consider this, 1.2cal/cm2 on barew skin for 0.1 second will cause a 2nd degree burn. That is the most painful type nad will often require skin grafts, could be fatal if exposed area is large enough.

HRC 1 = 1.2-4 cal/cm2
HRC 2 = 4-8cal/cm2
Etc...
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
How about this? Changing a breaker in a hot 460V panel. What level gear would most of you wear? That's all I really need to know because that is as exposed as I ever get besides using a meter
to troubleshoot control panels. Speaking of which, do people wear any gear just to take voltage/amperage readings in a hot panel?

This is where good training is so vital. That task could be little or no hazard, or it could be >40cal/cm2, the level where no PPE can protect you.

The right answer is you can't change a breaker hot unless it can't be shutdown, and even in that case an EEWP is required.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
How about this? Changing a breaker in a hot 460V panel. What level gear would most of you wear? That's all I really need to know because that is as exposed as I ever get besides using a meter
to troubleshoot control panels. Speaking of which, do people wear any gear just to take voltage/amperage readings in a hot panel?

Voltage has little to do with the potential energy that could be released in an arc incident. How much energy the source can deliver, less any effects from impedance of conductors between the source and the incident is what determines how much energy is available.

Generally higher voltage will mean more energy is available, but is not always true. 240 volts supplied from a pretty large source could have more incident energy than a situation with 480 volts supplied from a small source. Length and size of conductors between the incident and the source in both cases also makes a difference.
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
Can someone explain calories in a way that even I can understand? I am trying to get a handle on the level of hazard I am sometimes exposed to. Calories don't register with me.
I occasionally work with live 460V. Mostly that would involve changing or installing a breaker, or troubleshooting with meters etc. From what I gather, a calorie is the potential energy that can be delivered
to an area by way of a fault? Is that right? Say I was working on a 20amp 460V circuit. Does that equate to some level of calories?



Many sites say one calorie per centimeter squared per second can be equal to holding your finger over the tip (the hottest part) of the flame of a cigarette lighter for one second.

One second can be a long time.

Imagine what 25 cal/cm? would be like...
 

Aleman

Senior Member
Location
Southern Ca, USA
This is where good training is so vital. That task could be little or no hazard, or it could be >40cal/cm2, the level where no PPE can protect you.

The right answer is you can't change a breaker hot unless it can't be shutdown, and even in that case an EEWP is required.

Not sure what an EEWP is. I figured this would be the right answer of course. In the real world I believe there is a lot of hot work being performed and not always by qualified people. Not defending this by any means. I base my opinion on what I have seen at various jobs I have worked over the years. I have seen qualified electricians working in hot panels wearing no gear at all.
 
Not sure what an EEWP is.

EEWP = Energized Electrical Work Permit

If you look back through this forum area, you'll find a couple of samples. They start with things like a
description of work to be done, a description of circuit/equipment/job itself, and the justification of why the equipment cannot be deenergized.

Also check google for "Energized Electrical Work Permit". For instance:
http://electricalsafety.lbl.gov/assets/EEWP Instructions.pdf or
http://www.washington.edu/facilitie...ts/safety/electrical-energized_workpermit.pdf
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Not sure what an EEWP is. I figured this would be the right answer of course. In the real world I believe there is a lot of hot work being performed and not always by qualified people. Not defending this by any means. I base my opinion on what I have seen at various jobs I have worked over the years. I have seen qualified electricians working in hot panels wearing no gear at all.

Here we go again with "in the real world" , ugh. Where do you think we all live and work? In the real world 5 people a day are sent to burn units from arc flash accidents, is that a fake world? Think it feels "real world" to them while they are debreeding thier burns??

You obviously have not had any training on 70E, which means you are not qualified to do anything. Get the training, go tell your employer, he is required to provide you with the training and PPE to do your job safefly.

Times are changing, your job is changing, laws are changing. Thats real world.
 

Aleman

Senior Member
Location
Southern Ca, USA
Here we go again with "in the real world" , ugh. Where do you think we all live and work? In the real world 5 people a day are sent to burn units from arc flash accidents, is that a fake world? Think it feels "real world" to them while they are debreeding thier burns??

You obviously have not had any training on 70E, which means you are not qualified to do anything. Get the training, go tell your employer, he is required to provide you with the training and PPE to do your job safefly.

Times are changing, your job is changing, laws are changing. Thats real world.

Thanks for the advice Zog. My job is changing, we are going from a small company to a larger company and starting to take safety seriously. What started my threads recently was seeing licensed electricians from a large contractor changing breakers in a hot 460V panel. I thought they would do it right safety wise and I was mistaken.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Many sites say one calorie per centimeter squared per second can be equal to holding your finger over the tip (the hottest part) of the flame of a cigarette lighter for one second.

One second can be a long time.

Imagine what 25 cal/cm? would be like...

This brings up an important point that needs to be recognized. Like the watt-hour, the calorie is a measure of energy, not power. If you can calculate the clearing time for the fault that is producing the arc flash, you know (well, you estimate with confidence) the total energy that the PPE wearer is exposed to. Within limits, the total energy is more important than how fast or how slowly it is delivered.
If you are uncertain about the clearing time for the arc, you can also categorize the power delivered, in calories per second. The total energy you are exposed to is then limited by the clearing time or the time within which you are blown out of the path of the arc. :).

But the rating of PPE and the hazard category is based on the total energy, in calories, per centimeter2.
In this case, an energy of one calorie per sq. cm. is equivalent to the total energy you receive by holding your finger over the flame for one second. An energy of 2 cal/cm2 would be equivalent to holding your finger in the flame for two seconds, etc.
 

Aleman

Senior Member
Location
Southern Ca, USA
EEWP = Energized Electrical Work Permit

If you look back through this forum area, you'll find a couple of samples. They start with things like a
description of work to be done, a description of circuit/equipment/job itself, and the justification of why the equipment cannot be deenergized.

Also check google for "Energized Electrical Work Permit". For instance:
http://electricalsafety.lbl.gov/assets/EEWP Instructions.pdf or
http://www.washington.edu/facilitie...ts/safety/electrical-energized_workpermit.pdf

I checked those out, thanks for posting the links. I believe this is where my company is headed. Hate all the paperwork but it is what it is.
 
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