Required rec outlets - is this a "hallway"?

[mjf]

I'll try to explain this simply.

Walk in front doorway into approx 6' wide by 12' long area.

On your right is a 4' high by 5' long wall followed by a 4' wide opening into the living room followed by a 3' long wall to corner.

If you turn left you're looking down a "typical" 3' (or so) wide residential hallway.

Walk in front door again. On your left is a 9' long wall to corner of aforementioned "typical" hallway.

I'm planning to treat this 6' x 12' "area" as hallway (along with the "typical" hallway). Right, Wrong, or Questionable?

 

[jumper]

I'll try to explain this simply.

Walk in front doorway into approx 6' wide by 12' long area.

On your right is a 4' high by 5' long wall followed by a 4' wide opening into the living room followed by a 3' long wall to corner.

If you turn left you're looking down a "typical" 3' (or so) wide residential hallway.

Walk in front door again. On your left is a 9' long wall to corner of aforementioned "typical" hallway.

I'm planning to treat this 6' x 12' "area" as hallway (along with the "typical" hallway). Right, Wrong, or Questionable?

Looks like a foyer to me at first reading.

210.52(I) Foyers. Foyers that are not part of a hallway in accordance
with 210.52(H) and that have an area that is greater
than 5.6 m2 (60 ft2) shall have a receptacle(s) located in
each wall space 900 mm (3 ft) or more in width and unbroken
by doorways, floor-to-ceiling windows, and similar
openings.

 

[mjf]

Looks like a foyer to me at first reading.

210.52(I) Foyers. Foyers that are not part of a hallway in accordance
with 210.52(H) and that have an area that is greater
than 5.6 m2 (60 ft2) shall have a receptacle(s) located in
each wall space 900 mm (3 ft) or more in width and unbroken
by doorways, floor-to-ceiling windows, and similar
openings.

Hmmmm, Is that 2011? My 2008 ends with 210.52(H)

I did actually read through the code (for a change) prior to posting my question!!!

 

[infinity]

Sounds like a hallway to me.

 

[jumper]

Hmmmm, Is that 2011? My 2008 ends with 210.52(H)

I did actually read through the code (for a change) prior to posting my question!!!

Yes, 2011. Many members code cycles are located near their join date/location at top right.

 

[jumper]

Sounds like a hallway to me.

Could be, but OP describes an area 12' by 6' that leads to 3' wide typical hallways. I still see a foyer for now.

I admit I do not understand the area completely with the description. A drawing would be nice.

 

[mjf]

Could be, but OP describes an area 12' by 6' that leads to 3' wide typical hallways. I still see a foyer for now.

I admit I do not understand the area completely with the description. A drawing would be nice.

Off to my son's baseball practice....I'll try to draw one up later and then see if I can manage to post it.....Thanks.

 

[jumper]

Off to my son's baseball practice....I'll try to draw one up later and then see if I can manage to post it.....Thanks.

Enjoy, a quick sketch in paint would help, at least for me.

 

[Gregg Harris]

I attempted to draw per the description but didn't make sense I vote foyer as described.

 

[Hv&Lv]

I drew this out for myself, I'm with jumper on this one. It meets all the requirements of a foyer IMO

 

[jumper]

I drew this out for myself, I'm with jumper on this one. It meets all the requirements of a foyer IMO

No scan and post...........:weeping:

 

[mjf]

The area in question is right inside the front door. I had planned to install a rect on the 9' long wall (for convenience) and 1 in the 3' wide hallway (it's longer than 10'). In the 2008, 210.52, I couldn't find for certain whether or not I needed to treat this entry hallway/foyer as habitable space or as a hallway.



BTW, I had previously added my code cycle (2008) to my profile....thought it would show up when I post and never noticed it didn't.

 

[infinity]

With the half walls IMO it's either part of the living room or a hallway.

 

[Gregg Harris]

(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following: (1)

Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings See related ROC

(2)

The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels

(3)

The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings

I'm going with room divider for living room for the short wall.

 

[hurk27]

(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following: (1)

Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings See related ROC

(2)

The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels

(3)

The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings

I'm going with room divider for living room for the short wall.

I would say that that would apply to the living room side of the half wall but if the other half is considered a hallway then it wouldn't apply to its side, allot will depend upon how it is identified in the prints, if it is just a wide walk through then it might be considered a hallway, but if it is a functionally part of the living room then it would apply to both sides, a 6' wide area just off the living room like this could very well be used as living space as there is room for furniture maybe even a desk, myself I would put receptacles in that area at least on the half wall because it wouldn't cost that much more to jump them off the required living room receptacles.

I will say it is kind of a strange layout as why take an extra 3' that could be used to make the living room larger and still provide a 3' wide hall, I think the worst design I saw was a friend of mines house he had built, he has a rather large living room but in the middle of it he has this 10'x8' half wall area that has an opening on each end, the rest of the living room just circles it, and is carpeted while this middle area is ceramic tiled, its like having a 6' wide living room running around this walled in space, but then he's Greek so he does some strange things LOL.

 

[mjf]

(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following: (1)

Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings See related ROC

(2)

The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels

(3)

The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings

I'm going with room divider for living room for the short wall.

I would say that that would apply to the living room side of the half wall but if the other half is considered a hallway then it wouldn't apply to its side, allot will depend upon how it is identified in the prints, if it is just a wide walk through then it might be considered a hallway, but if it is a functionally part of the living room then it would apply to both sides, a 6' wide area just off the living room like this could very well be used as living space as there is room for furniture maybe even a desk, myself I would put receptacles in that area at least on the half wall because it wouldn't cost that much more to jump them off the required living room receptacles.

I will say it is kind of a strange layout as why take an extra 3' that could be used to make the living room larger and still provide a 3' wide hall, I think the worst design I saw was a friend of mines house he had built, he has a rather large living room but in the middle of it he has this 10'x8' half wall area that has an opening on each end, the rest of the living room just circles it, and is carpeted while this middle area is ceramic tiled, its like having a 6' wide living room running around this walled in space, but then he's Greek so he does some strange things LOL.

@Greg Harris - Yes, I am aware that the half wall on the living room side is wall space and requires a receptical.

@ Hurk27 - It's an existing house that's been gutted to the framing. That 1/2 wall was a full wall and the opening to the LR used to be only 36". Now it's 48". The owners wanted to open up the area as much as they could and still have seperation. They're doing the 1/2 wall thing between the kitchen and dining room also with an eat at counter, (yes, I'll have my required countertop receptacle(s).

From what I remember the existing front door is very close to where the 1/2 wall comes off of the outside wall. (BTW, there are no prints, building dept didn't require them). I wouldn't think I'd set anything against the 1/2 wall, but maybe a parsons table with a lamp on the 9' full wall so I was going to give them a rect (not required in the 2008 IF this is considered hallway).


That LR you described sounds very weird....maybe it's easier to clean the tiled floor after the human sacrifices??:jawdrop:

 

[jumper]

Guess I am the minority here, I still say foyer. Oh well.

 

[mjf]

Guess I am the minority here, I still say foyer. Oh well.

From the 2008:

210.52 (A) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room, bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accordance with the general provisions specified in 210.52(A)(1) through (A)(3).

Granted, the 2011 specifically addresses foyers, I can't see how the area I'm refering to would be considered a "similar" room. Between the front door opening in, the opening into the living room, and the 3' wide hallway it's really not large enough to do anything in but walk through.

I guess I could also argue that the 3' wide hallway extends all the way to the living room wall which would make the foyer 6' x 9' and then be only 54 sq. ft.:slaphead:

 

[mjf]

And, how do you guys get your code cycle to show up? Add it to your location in your profile?

 

[jumper]

From the 2008:

210.52 (A) General Provisions. In every kitchen, family room, bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of dwelling units, receptacle outlets shall be installed in accordance with the general provisions specified in 210.52(A)(1) through (A)(3).

Granted, the 2011 specifically addresses foyers, I can't see how the area I'm refering to would be considered a "similar" room. Between the front door opening in, the opening into the living room, and the 3' wide hallway it's really not large enough to do anything in but walk through.

I guess I could also argue that the 3' wide hallway extends all the way to the living room wall which would make the foyer 6' x 9' and then be only 54 sq. ft.:slaphead:

Gotta love the NEC, clear as mud at times.