lockout cut

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Rewire

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Has anyone ever had a lockout tagout cut? We did a service call sunday and were returning today to final repair we out our lockout on the disconnect so nobody would energize the circuit. We came back at 9 am to find our lockout removed and another EC finishing the work. I guess he got the call on his answer box and decided to respond on monday. Got the owner to sign a waiver of liability grabed my lock and left .
 
Has anyone ever had a lockout tagout cut? We did a service call sunday and were returning today to final repair we out our lockout on the disconnect so nobody would energize the circuit. We came back at 9 am to find our lockout removed and another EC finishing the work. I guess he got the call on his answer box and decided to respond on monday. Got the owner to sign a waiver of liability grabed my lock and left .

I don't think we've ever had a lockout removed, but I don't talk to all the service guys on a regular basis. It would definitely have been a topic at one of the monthly meetings.

When you say it was "cut", what exactly was cut? The lock shackle, or a plastic zip tie running through the shackle hole in the lockout device?
 
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Yes, the lock was cut by another trade on the jobsite disregarding the LOTO tag that clearly stated the purpose, and contact info including company, name, cell number and picture.
We were still onsite working on the circuit when the bozo cut the lock to restore power so he could have power for his lights, radio and battery chargers. Fortunately I detected the voltage presence before getting zapped and went to investigate why it was hot.
He wasn't so lucky and was ran off the jobsite by the onsite PM before he received a severe beating and was terminated that day by his employer after we complained.
 
Has anyone ever had a lockout tagout cut? We did a service call sunday and were returning today to final repair we out our lockout on the disconnect so nobody would energize the circuit. We came back at 9 am to find our lockout removed and another EC finishing the work. I guess he got the call on his answer box and decided to respond on monday. Got the owner to sign a waiver of liability grabed my lock and left .

Did you get paid? Was your lock clearly marked with your name, company, phone number? What liability does the other EC have for cutting the lock?
 
OK, couldn't figure out why eHunter was apparently answering my question, or I'm more tired than usual for a Monday.
He was directly answering Rewire's question: "Has anyone ever had a lockout tagout cut?" and your post just got caught in the middle. :)

It took me a while to figure it out and I have had plenty of coffee today.
 
I can't help but wonder, what are the circumstances here? This could be a case of buyers remorse overnight and not a true safety issue as on a job site where you are the contrctor of record. Sounds like you were not actively on the job and the customer bailed on you.
 
Did you get paid? Was your lock clearly marked with your name, company, phone number? What liability does the other EC have for cutting the lock?

Yes we were paid,Lock was maked with name .company name ,and phone. Owner did not know he did it I gathered later he was the regular EC for this marina but was gone for the weekend we have 24/7 answer service and on call electrician went out. No ground was pulled with the feeders to the shore power pedestals my guy locked out the disconnect on shore till we could return and refeed the dock with a proper ground. The issue was a bad neutral connection but rather than bandaid our guy decided to wait till this AM and bring help to pull new ground. When we arrived his lockout was off (it is one that clamps on and then you put a lock on it) they were able to pry it open to remove. They were on the dock repairing the bad splice I asked him why he removed it and he just said it was no big deal. He did not pull a ground and left it as is.
 
Yes we were paid,Lock was maked with name .company name ,and phone. Owner did not know he did it I gathered later he was the regular EC for this marina but was gone for the weekend we have 24/7 answer service and on call electrician went out. No ground was pulled with the feeders to the shore power pedestals my guy locked out the disconnect on shore till we could return and refeed the dock with a proper ground. The issue was a bad neutral connection but rather than bandaid our guy decided to wait till this AM and bring help to pull new ground. When we arrived his lockout was off (it is one that clamps on and then you put a lock on it) they were able to pry it open to remove. They were on the dock repairing the bad splice I asked him why he removed it and he just said it was no big deal. He did not pull a ground and left it as is.

No Big deal ?:eek:

alrighty then!
 
OK, couldn't figure out why eHunter was apparently answering my question, or I'm more tired than usual for a Monday.
I was confused at first. Had rewire opened with something like "Yes, I've had a lock cut on me..." it would have been less confusing.

ehunter possibly has the right to seek criminal charges against the guy that cut his lock.

Rewire probably has been let go by his client.
 
'Lockout" locks cannot remain on the device if you are not on site working on the equipment. If you leave, you have to remove the lockout lock and use some type of transfer lock or tag.
 
'Lockout" locks cannot remain on the device if you are not on site working on the equipment. If you leave, you have to remove the lockout lock and use some type of transfer lock or tag.

70E 2012:

"120.2(F)(2)(l) Removal of Lockout/Tagout Devices. The procedure shall identify the details for removing locks or tags when the installing individual is unavailable. When locks or tags are removed by someone other than the installer, the employer shall attempt to locate that person prior to removing the lock or tag. When the lock or tag is removed because the installer is unavailable, the installer shall be informed prior to returning to work."

It appears that 70E anticipates lockouts remaining when the installer has left the premises.

In WV removing someone else's lockout can prove to be hazardous to your health (or to all the glass in your vehicle).
 
'Lockout" locks cannot remain on the device if you are not on site working on the equipment. If you leave, you have to remove the lockout lock and use some type of transfer lock or tag.

i'm perplexed.

i've worked for a utility, where tags and brass padlocks
are applied to equipment, and some of those have been
on for so long that the person applying them has retired,
and the tag has had another tag added on top of it, with
someone still employed.

oldest one i'd seen in the two years i was there, was
1958, on a 5 kv peddler in a 1910 switch house in downtown
LA. it had a whole collection of tags, every few years someone
would retire, and it'd get another tag...

is that what you'd mean by a "transfer lock"?
 
70E 2012:

"120.2(F)(2)(l) Removal of Lockout/Tagout Devices. The procedure shall identify the details for removing locks or tags when the installing individual is unavailable. When locks or tags are removed by someone other than the installer, the employer shall attempt to locate that person prior to removing the lock or tag. When the lock or tag is removed because the installer is unavailable, the installer shall be informed prior to returning to work."

It appears that 70E anticipates lockouts remaining when the installer has left the premises.

In WV removing someone else's lockout can prove to be hazardous to your health (or to all the glass in your vehicle).

a first level supervisor i had the thrill of working for at DWP had taken it upon himself to cut off
a line patrolman's lock, without bothering to notify him, as "he had a crew standing around
waiting for the patrolman to show up"....... on a 35 KV distribution line.

he was reprimanded, not terminated. thank god for civil service, eh?
 
...

is that what you'd mean by a "transfer lock"?
A transfer lock is used when the equipment is not safe to re-energize, but no one is working on the equipment. It is an uncontrolled lock..that is not under the control of a single person. When work is to resume, the worker must verify the equipment is still de-energized and place his lockout lock on the energy source or lock box for group lockouts.
(maybe this is just the interpretation of the plant where I normally work, but they insist that the requirement to remove your lockout lock when you are not actually on site and working on the equipment is an OSHA rule)
 
It appears that 70E anticipates lockouts remaining when the installer has left the premises.
LOTO procedures are per the employer's policies.
I believe the section you quoted deals with the situation when a worker has left the site and is unable to return to remove their lock.

70E is really nothing more than a list of the items your Electrical Safe Work Practices program needs to address.
OSHA has a lot more to say about LOTO, but be careful to use the sections that apply to your work environment (e.g. there are different LOTO procedures for construction than for maintenance).

I have worked where we had to remove our personal locks even when we left the site for lunch.
 
As a contractor I always carried both safety lockout tags and out of service tags, safety lockout tags were never left on the equipment if we left the site as it would be changed to an "out of service tag" that warned of a potential hazard of electrocution and or a fire on it or the equipment that was to be operated before repairs were made, in all cases the owner or care taker of the property would be made aware of the lock and as to why it was installed in writing that they sign a copy of that we kept as a record they were notified of the hazard.

At the steel mill where I work now we have our own locks that we use during our shift but if our shift ends we remove our locks and a continuity lock is placed on the disconnect or other like valves and such, this is placed by our shift supervisor until the next shift worker places his lock on the equipment, if you accidentally leave work and left your lock on without getting it changed to a continuity lock they can not just cut your lock off until you have been contacted, it also will include being wrote up and can cause you to be fired if the equipment that is shut down causes a major production loss because the next shift that finished the job couldn't re-energize the equipment and put it back in production, cutting the lock off of another employee is immediate dismissal, even if it is the boss if they didn't make personal contact with you, even if your wife answers the phone and says yes you are not at the plant, they have to speak to you personally before they can cut the lock if you went to the store without your cell phone then this production could end up being kept down till you make contact with them which could be for hours.

I have worked at other plants where no such rules existed and people got hurt, I have scars on my right arm from one such instance where back then we only had a tag out system and a production worker who couldn't read English saw his machine was running out of fiber and instead of contacting anyone just ripped the tag off and turned the fiber blender back on which tore open my right arm as I was trying to remove a jamb in the in-feed conveyor, unfortunately all I got was a settlement from Workman's comp of $1500.00 as we can't sue the company we work for here in Indiana, the worker who removed the tag was fired and all the maintenance guys pulled a blue Monday until the plant manger agreed to start a lockout tagout program with training for all production and maintenance workers and each new hire, this was at a time when there was no OSHA or other guidelines for safety as it was left up to liability's of the company to encourage company's to develop some kind of work place safety, but well here in Indiana since you could not sue your employer it kind of defeated this reasoning.
 
A transfer lock is used when the equipment is not safe to re-energize, but no one is working on the equipment. It is an uncontrolled lock..that is not under the control of a single person. When work is to resume, the worker must verify the equipment is still de-energized and place his lockout lock on the energy source or lock box for group lockouts.
(maybe this is just the interpretation of the plant where I normally work, but they insist that the requirement to remove your lockout lock when you are not actually on site and working on the equipment is an OSHA rule)

'm kay... that clears it up for me. that description fits with
what DWP practices were, they used a lock keyed to a key
that most electrical mechanics had a copy of.

what i use for locking out is the red plastic locks that brady sells
in a six pack... my cellphone number is on the back of them, with
my name. they are uniquely keyed, with one key per lock.

i've locked stuff like air handlers up once i got them connected,
and the setup man wasn't ready to go yet, and i was done....
just put a lock on it, give the setup guy the key, and it's his.
 
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