Sunlight resistant outside wires / conductors

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Riograndeelectric

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can a THHN or THW conductor used a GEC be ran outside and exposed to sunlight versus run Bare cooper wire. I looked in article 310 and could not find anything regarding if conductor would have to sun light resistant.

Reason for the question is on an upcoming service the GEC to main water line will need to be run exposed around the perimeter of the house at the soffit line as main water is in the basement and no way go through attic.
I want to run a THHN#4 wire exposed for the GEC.

Thanks.
Cameron
 
Riograndeelectric said:
can a THHN or THW conductor used a GEC be ran outside and exposed to sunlight versus run Bare cooper wire. I looked in article 310 and could not find anything regarding if conductor would have to sun light resistant.

Reason for the question is on an upcoming service the GEC to main water line will need to be run exposed around the perimeter of the house at the soffit line as main water is in the basement and no way go through attic.
I want to run a THHN#4 wire exposed for the GEC.

Thanks.
Cameron
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That's a good question and wonder what others opinions may be.

IMO, it has to be 'W'- and SR-rated, as 250.62 uses the word 'shall' in specifying an insulated GEC as one of the options.
 
Outside is a wet location. THHN is NOT rated for a wet location. THWN and THWN-2 are rated for wet locations (with different temperature ratings). Wire may be multiple rated.
 
Except for corrosive conditions if the conductor is not required to be insulated like it is for manufactured homes in 550, then the insulation is just there for the ride as it is not serving any purpose, 250.62 does not require an GEC to be insulated
 
Smart $ said:
Already covered...
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250.62 Grounding Electrode Conductor Material
The grounding electrode conductor shall be of copper, alu-
minum, or copper-clad aluminum. The material selected
shall be resistant to any corrosive condition existing at the
installation or shall be protected against corrosion. The con-
ductor shall be solid or stranded, insulated, covered, or bare.
Click to expand...
Not seeing anything that requires any any particular rating on the insulation if the GEC happens to have insulation; only what the conductor in the GEC is to be made of.
 
hurk27 said:
Except for corrosive conditions if the conductor is not required to be insulated like it is for manufactured homes in 550, then the insulation is just there for the ride as it is not serving any purpose, 250.62 does not require an GEC to be insulated
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I agree, we could maybe just call it a "covered" conductor as it could be covered with about anything that is not damaging in any way to the conductor and still be acceptable.
 
hurk27 said:
Except for corrosive conditions if the conductor is not required to be insulated like it is for manufactured homes in 550, then the insulation is just there for the ride as it is not serving any purpose, 250.62 does not require an GEC to be insulated
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I agree, except IMO not required to be insulated is not quite the same as insulated an option of the requirement and insulated installed. Insulation type could be debated as the basic requirements are covered in 310.10, which states that it applies to Chapter 3 wiring methods, which does not have any specific wiring method for GEC's conductors... but the definition of an insulated conductor says it must e of a material composition recognized by Code. How else would we establish that recognition?
 
Smart $ said:
I agree, except IMO not required to be insulated is not quite the same as insulated an option of the requirement and insulated installed. Insulation type could be debated as the basic requirements are covered in 310.10, which states that it applies to Chapter 3 wiring methods, which does not have any specific wiring method for GEC's conductors... but the definition of an insulated conductor says it must e of a material composition recognized by Code. How else would we establish that recognition?
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Can you take same conductor and strip off the insulation and run it as a bare GEC?

If answer is yes, to me that means the insulation in this application is just a covering and not a required insulation that has to meet any specifications.
 
kwired said:
Can you take same conductor and strip off the insulation and run it as a bare GEC?
Click to expand...
Yes.

If answer is yes, to me that means the insulation in this application is just a covering and not a required insulation that has to meet any specifications.
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I would agree with you if "insulated" wasn't a required option.

250.62 Grounding Electrode Conductor Material. The
grounding electrode conductor shall be of copper, aluminum,
or copper-clad aluminum. The material selected shall
be resistant to any corrosive condition existing at the installation
or shall be protected against corrosion. The conductor
shall be solid or stranded, insulated, covered, or bare.
Click to expand...

Conductor, Insulated. A conductor encased within material
of composition and thickness that is recognized by this
Code as electrical insulation.
Click to expand...

As I noted previously, insulation of a type rated for the conditions of use is debatable. If using an insulated type not rated for the conditions of use, then it would not meet the definition of insulated conductor.

However, another thought I just had is, such conductor would fall under the definition of "covered", which is an option of the requirement. SO, I guess this is much ado about nothing. :slaphead:
 
Smart $ said:
Yes.


I would agree with you if "insulated" wasn't a required option.





As I noted previously, insulation of a type rated for the conditions of use is debatable. If using an insulated type not rated for the conditions of use, then it would not meet the definition of insulated conductor.

However, another thought I just had is, such conductor would fall under the definition of "covered", which is an option of the requirement. SO, I guess this is much ado about nothing. :slaphead:
Click to expand...

Glad you had that disagreement with yourself there:)
 
Smart $ said:
Yes.


I would agree with you if "insulated" wasn't a required option.





As I noted previously, insulation of a type rated for the conditions of use is debatable. If using an insulated type not rated for the conditions of use, then it would not meet the definition of insulated conductor.

However, another thought I just had is, such conductor would fall under the definition of "covered", which is an option of the requirement. SO, I guess this is much ado about nothing. :slaphead:
Click to expand...


Don't you just hate it when you argue with yourself.........and loose!!:thumbsup:
 
I hate requirements like this: shall be solid or stranded, insulated, covered, or bare.

What other choice is there besides solid/stranded, and insulated/covered/bare? Doesn't that pretty much cover all choices? Why not just leave these requirement out since the NEC is permissive.
 
= : =
"What other choice is there besides solid/stranded, and insulated/covered/bare? Doesn't that pretty much cover all choices? Why not just leave these requirement out since the NEC is permissive."
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The `ol CYA Factor ! :happyyes:

= : =
 
suemarkp said:
I hate requirements like this: shall be solid or stranded, insulated, covered, or bare.

What other choice is there besides solid/stranded, and insulated/covered/bare? Doesn't that pretty much cover all choices? Why not just leave these requirement out since the NEC is permissive.
Click to expand...

I guess the conductor can not be a liquid or a gas.
 
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