End of life on electrical equipment.

[cornbread]

End of life on electrical equipment.
Looking for some feedback, opinions or any help on the end of life of electrical equipment (power distribution). Of course as equipment ages it becomes less reliable and I?m assuming less safe. With that in mind when do you start replacing equipment such as transformers, relays, Switchgear, MCC?s, distribution cables and other misc electrical equipment? I know duty cycle and maintenance plays a huge role in this discussion but I?m looking for any generic guidance. Any opinions, advice or other comments are appreciated.

 

[cowboyjwc]

End of life on electrical equipment.
Looking for some feedback, opinions or any help on the end of life of electrical equipment (power distribution). Of course as equipment ages it becomes less reliable and I?m assuming less safe. With that in mind when do you start replacing equipment such as transformers, relays, Switchgear, MCC?s, distribution cables and other misc electrical equipment? I know duty cycle and maintenance plays a huge role in this discussion but I?m looking for any generic guidance. Any opinions, advice or other comments are appreciated.

Have never replaced anything, other than a panel, before it went bad.

 

[zog]

End of life on electrical equipment.
Looking for some feedback, opinions or any help on the end of life of electrical equipment (power distribution). Of course as equipment ages it becomes less reliable and I?m assuming less safe. With that in mind when do you start replacing equipment such as transformers, relays, Switchgear, MCC?s, distribution cables and other misc electrical equipment? I know duty cycle and maintenance plays a huge role in this discussion but I?m looking for any generic guidance. Any opinions, advice or other comments are appreciated.

The answer varies with equipment type, pretty difficult to adress all the variables in one post. They don't build switchgear like they used to, properly maintained and serviced equipment can last forever, new stuff is "disposable". EPRI has some very good papers and guidance on the subject.

 

[robbietan]

End of life on electrical equipment.
Looking for some feedback, opinions or any help on the end of life of electrical equipment (power distribution). Of course as equipment ages it becomes less reliable and I?m assuming less safe. With that in mind when do you start replacing equipment such as transformers, relays, Switchgear, MCC?s, distribution cables and other misc electrical equipment? I know duty cycle and maintenance plays a huge role in this discussion but I?m looking for any generic guidance. Any opinions, advice or other comments are appreciated.

in the utility's eye: if it aint broke, dont replace it. transformers tend to be replaced due to changes in load, not age

 

[kwired]

Have never replaced anything, other than a panel, before it went bad.

You never replaced old wiring even though it still functioned?

 

[cowboyjwc]

You never replaced old wiring even though it still functioned?

Not unless the customer asked. I'm of the school that if it's working don't mess with it.

 

[kwired]

Not unless the customer asked. I'm of the school that if it's working don't mess with it.

So if a customer has gutted a room and has existing K&T wiring you have never replaced the K&T unless there was something wrong with it? You could still add additional receptacles and such but leave existing in place, but most people tend to replace this method in that kind of situation whether it is in good shape for what it is or not.

I can probably come up with other examples where it is generally considered a no brainer to replace something even though it still works.

 

[cowboyjwc]

So if a customer has gutted a room and has existing K&T wiring you have never replaced the K&T unless there was something wrong with it? You could still add additional receptacles and such but leave existing in place, but most people tend to replace this method in that kind of situation whether it is in good shape for what it is or not.

I can probably come up with other examples where it is generally considered a no brainer to replace something even though it still works.

Only house I ever worked on that had K&T wiring they gutted right down to the foundation. So I don't think that counts.

I think the OP's question was more would you change out a 20 year old transformer, just because it's 20 years old, or would you wait until it failed.

My wifes getting old but I haven't gotten rid of her yet either, because?...She works just fine.

 

[PowerSupportElec]

Not unless the customer asked. I'm of the school that if it's working don't mess with it.

I'm of the school that we're out to make money and there is a lot out there that can be made from upgrading things that still work.

I've replaced hundreds of FPE and Zinsco panels. I've replaced miles of K&T and 2 conductor cable. Just yesterday I replaced the guts of a panel that worked perfectly fine, but had some burn marks on the bus from a malfunctioning breaker.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I'm of the school that we're out to make money and there is a lot out there that can be made from upgrading things that still work.

I've replaced hundreds of FPE and Zinsco panels. I've replaced miles of K&T and 2 conductor cable. Just yesterday I replaced the guts of a panel that worked perfectly fine, but had some burn marks on the bus from a malfunctioning breaker.

Have a ball. Bet you told them what a fire hazard they are too. I, as an inspector, don't have that luxery to tell people something that may or may not be true.

 

[PowerSupportElec]

Have a ball. Bet you told them what a fire hazard they are too.

No, it's usually the other way around. The customer telling me that they want to get rid of the FPE panel or K&T wiring. Or many times telling me that their insurance company is forcing them to do it on a house they are buying. I do, however, inform the customer about 2 wire circuits and the possible dangers.

I, as an inspector, don't have that luxery to tell people something that may or may not be true.

That's an assertion that you made about me, which is not true.

However, even if it was true, as an inspector your opinion doesn't matter. As an electrician, my opinion is exactly what the customer is asking for.

Furthermore, this discussion was about you replacing electrical items. So your work as an inspector doesn't even come into play. I don't know why you even brought it up...

 

[cowboyjwc]

No, it's usually the other way around. The customer telling me that they want to get rid of the FPE panel or K&T wiring. Or many times telling me that their insurance company is forcing them to do it on a house they are buying. I do, however, inform the customer about 2 wire circuits and the possible dangers.

That's an assertion that you made about me, which is not true.

However, even if it was true, as an inspector your opinion doesn't matter. As an electrician, my opinion is exactly what the customer is asking for.

Furthermore, this discussion was about you replacing electrical items. So your work as an inspector doesn't even come into play. I don't know why you even brought it up...

That is true I did make an assertion about you.

And then you made one about me. I too am an electrical contractor, though I no longer work as one, I still hold a license. So my opinon should matter just as much as yours.

Ok I'll stop now, before one of us makes the other mad.

 

[PowerSupportElec]

That is true I did make an assertion about you.

And then you made one about me. I too am an electrical contractor, though I no longer work as one, I still hold a license. So my opinon should matter just as much as yours.

Ok I'll stop now, before one of us makes the other mad.

I don't believe that I made an assertion. You stated, quite clearly, that as an inspector you don't have the luxuries that an electrician has.

But let's move on from that, let's discuss how there are many times that an electrical contractor can replacing working hardware for safety reasons. I gave some examples above.

 

[renosteinke]

It's pretty rare for me to replace something "just because." Generally, I have a specific reason.

Here are some criteria, by product type:

Panels: Availability of breakers

Transformers: megger readings suggesting failing insulation

Motors: Noise, vibration, pin-point heat, megger readings

Wires: Obvious damage to insulation; excessive color change (say, green to blue) due to age or exposure

Light bulbs: When 'up there' for something else, and access is an issue

GFCI's: Older types, at first hint of trouble

 

[Ragin Cajun]

Tough question.

I am working on a manufacturing facility that was built in the early 1950's. Most of the 480V sub panels and most of the 120V panels are original. Continental or some such brand. Many are missing parts of the inner covers. All are presently energized, but . . . Even where I need to replace the panel, there's the issue of the wiring. Bend it and the insulation will break off.

The 480V to 120V transformers are also 60+ years old. What to do there?

The existing lighting is two wire. Oops! Can't have that. Many of the receptacles are either 2 wire or where 3 "wire" there is no equipment grounding conductor.

Fortunately, the 15KV adn 480V swgr is less than 20 years old so that's in good shape.

RC

 

[zog]

Fortunately, the 15KV adn 480V swgr is less than 20 years old so that's in good shape.

RC

Chances are 20 year old 15kV switchgear uses vacuum breakers. Vacuum bottles are designed to have a 20-30 life span (Depending on make) so while they may seem "new" and VCB's are marketing as low maintenence devices they are often overlooked. Traditionally a hipot is used to test "vacuum integrity" but it is just a go no-go test, we now have the ability to measure the pressure in the bottles to determine remaining life, which is important because when a bottle fails it is usually pretty spectacular.