Any lawyers on here??

[69gp]

Just looking for some info or advice on the following.

I finished a $700,000 dollar project in October of 2012 it was a HUD Housing project. The issue is that there were 10- 12' post fixtures with a frosted acrylic Acorn style head. When we went for a final we passed the electrical inspection but failed by the Building inspector as there is a Town ordnance that does not allow for light trespass above 90 degrees of the fixture. This was on a Friday and tenants were to move in the following Monday. The building inspector did not want to issue the CO for this. We had a meeting between the Building inspector, myself, the GC and the architect and it was decided that the head would be changed. We where given 60 days to change out the head.

The architect and the engineer were to split the cost of the fixtures and to specified the fixture head to use. Well needles to say the engineer did not provide a fixture to use and the architect informed me to try and locate a fixture to use. I was able to find a fixture to meet the town ordinance and the total cost including labor was $10,500.00. I was told to order them as a Rush and get them installed ASAP. Which I did. I was told the paperwork would be forthcoming. Well it never did. I have done work for this GC and architect for over 10 years at a value of a little over 8 million dollars and never had any troubles. The GC is belly up and I have been paid my contract but not this CO.

My question since I do not have any paperwork to install the new fixture that is now installed can I swap them out for the old ones that created the light trespass issue in the fist place?
The way I figure it once they find out that there is a violation they will be all over me and then I can say give me a check and they will be re installed

And please I know that it was my mistake to do the work without an approved CO but you don't need to ride me on that I will do it for myself. I was a dumba** jerk for doing it without the right paperwork I got what I deserved.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Hv&Lv]

My question since I do not have any paperwork to install the new fixture that is now installed can I swap them out for the old ones that created the light trespass issue in the fist place?
The way I figure it once they find out that there is a violation they will be all over me and then I can say give me a check and they will be re installed

I would have to say a lien would be more appropriate than taking the real property that is now part of the owners real estate.

Once the material is installed it becomes the property of the owner of the real estate.

I'm not a lawyer but I did a little landscaping years ago and installed 50 red tips on a property line for someone. I wasn't paid. I went back and removed the shrubs two weeks later and was quickly served with a trespass and unlawful removal of personal property (stealing) warrant. I had to put the shrubs back. :rant:

Of course these days sometimes a lien is of little use...

 

[Rewire]

Removing the fixtures will put you on the wrong side of the law. Once installed it cannot be legally removed . without any paper work and a GC that has no assets your recourses may be limited. also in some states liens must be placed in a timely manner. Its real attourney time.

 

[AV ELECTRIC]

were you able to be reimbursed for the fixtures you had to replace? i guess you still have them .

i do understand how you did want to satisfy the customer and it appears you had a good relationship with the parties you were working with but it appears they left you holding the bag .

for me when things become difficult to recoup the whole amount sometimes i will lower my expectations and just take less just getting half the amount is always better than nothing.

you must also look at how important these relationships are to you i guess they provided you work in the past so has this ended for you or would you like to work something out and continue to work with this group in the future ?

 

[Fulthrotl]

The GC is belly up and I have been paid my contract but not this CO.

sir, it sounds like the show is over.

the good news, is that you got paid for the contract without a
two year snarfing in court.

i'd say you have some lighting fixtures to either sell, or donate to
habitat for humanity, at full market value. without a signed work
order, you don't have a lien to stand on.

so, you are in $10.5k and probably half of that is fixtures, yes?
so, you donate them, take 5k off your taxes, which saves you
$2k in tax liability.

so, you are out of pocket roughly $8k on $700k. a little over a percent.
i'll take those kind of numbers, anyday.

my cost of copper wire went up almost $5k between bid time, and purchase
of the wire..... on $100k worth of work. it's called "contracting"...... :happyyes:

 

[iwire]

I agree with the others, once installed you cannot repossess them.

It really sounds like you are screwed.

 

[petersonra]

Just looking for some info or advice on the following.

I finished a $700,000 dollar project in October of 2012 it was a HUD Housing project. The issue is that there were 10- 12' post fixtures with a frosted acrylic Acorn style head. When we went for a final we passed the electrical inspection but failed by the Building inspector as there is a Town ordnance that does not allow for light trespass above 90 degrees of the fixture. This was on a Friday and tenants were to move in the following Monday. The building inspector did not want to issue the CO for this. We had a meeting between the Building inspector, myself, the GC and the architect and it was decided that the head would be changed. We where given 60 days to change out the head.

if it was decided, someone did the deciding and agreed to the cost implications.

The architect and the engineer were to split the cost of the fixtures and to specified the fixture head to use. Well needles to say the engineer did not provide a fixture to use and the architect informed me to try and locate a fixture to use. I was able to find a fixture to meet the town ordinance and the total cost including labor was $10,500.00. I was told to order them as a Rush and get them installed ASAP. Which I did. I was told the paperwork would be forthcoming. Well it never did. I have done work for this GC and architect for over 10 years at a value of a little over 8 million dollars and never had any troubles. The GC is belly up and I have been paid my contract but not this CO.

If the engineer and the architect agreed to pay for the fixtures how are you stuck with the cost of them? there had to have been some kind of minutes of this meeting where this was agreed to. Did you agree to handle the labor N/C?

My question since I do not have any paperwork to install the new fixture that is now installed can I swap them out for the old ones that created the light trespass issue in the fist place?
The way I figure it once they find out that there is a violation they will be all over me and then I can say give me a check and they will be re installed

This is a bad idea IMO for various reasons.

And please I know that it was my mistake to do the work without an approved CO but you don't need to ride me on that I will do it for myself. I was a dumba** jerk for doing it without the right paperwork I got what I deserved.

I think you may well have an action against the engineer and architect for the cost of the fixtures.

You should have a lawyer to advise you how to handle this kind of thing. An Internet forum is a bad place to try and resolve this.

 

[jumper]

You should have a lawyer to advise you how to handle this kind of thing. An Internet forum is a bad place to try and resolve this.

And that is a : BINGO

 

[kwired]

OP says this was a HUD housing project and liens were mentioned several times so far. Can you even file a lien against what very well may be government owned property? May not be federal government property but could be local government property that receives HUD funds for operation.

 

[kwired]

I also understand once you install items as in the OP they become part of the real estate they are associated with and to take them back is stealing - even if you were not paid for them.

But yet anything that is not part of real estate can be repossessed, like a vehicle you have not made payments on, or I have even heard of furniture or appliances - especially big screen TV's or audio equipment being repossessed if there was a payment plan and payments were not made just doesn't seem all that fair at times:happyno:.


I suppose having a good attorney to help you write your contracts or other sales agreements maybe would give you more ways to fight back in those situations.

 

[jumper]

OP says this was a HUD housing project and liens were mentioned several times so far. Can you even file a lien against what very well may be government owned property? May not be federal government property but could be local government property that receives HUD funds for operation.

Ask Bob Peterson just said: Ask the lawyer.

 

[kwired]

Reading the thread title - why would there be any lawyers on here? The pay is horrible to do any business of that type on here

If we do help the OP in any way we should be good lawyers and expect at least $200.00 per helpful post:happyyes:

 

[jumper]

If we do help the OP in any way we should be good lawyers and expect at least $200.00 per helpful post:happyyes:

One problem: how much do we fine for wrong or unhelpful posts?

 

[kwired]

One problem: how much do we fine for wrong or unhelpful posts?

We need a judge to come in on another post and make a judgement, each side still gets to have legal representation, at a cost per post, basically move the courtroom to the forum. Consultation with your attorney for things not officially mentioned on the record are to be done via PM at whatever rate your attorney sets to do so.

Don't laugh, it may happen someday, just maybe not on this site.

 

[GUNNING]

It happens get over it or send them a bill and see what happens. Definitely look into minimizing your loss. Sell back the old heads to the MFG or distributor. It might be easier to collect $5K instead.

 

[weressl]

Just looking for some info or advice on the following.

I finished a $700,000 dollar project in October of 2012 it was a HUD Housing project. The issue is that there were 10- 12' post fixtures with a frosted acrylic Acorn style head. When we went for a final we passed the electrical inspection but failed by the Building inspector as there is a Town ordnance that does not allow for light trespass above 90 degrees of the fixture. This was on a Friday and tenants were to move in the following Monday. The building inspector did not want to issue the CO for this. We had a meeting between the Building inspector, myself, the GC and the architect and it was decided that the head would be changed. We where given 60 days to change out the head.

The architect and the engineer were to split the cost of the fixtures and to specified the fixture head to use. Well needles to say the engineer did not provide a fixture to use and the architect informed me to try and locate a fixture to use. I was able to find a fixture to meet the town ordinance and the total cost including labor was $10,500.00. I was told to order them as a Rush and get them installed ASAP. Which I did. I was told the paperwork would be forthcoming. Well it never did. I have done work for this GC and architect for over 10 years at a value of a little over 8 million dollars and never had any troubles. The GC is belly up and I have been paid my contract but not this CO.

My question since I do not have any paperwork to install the new fixture that is now installed can I swap them out for the old ones that created the light trespass issue in the fist place?
The way I figure it once they find out that there is a violation they will be all over me and then I can say give me a check and they will be re installed

And please I know that it was my mistake to do the work without an approved CO but you don't need to ride me on that I will do it for myself. I was a dumba** jerk for doing it without the right paperwork I got what I deserved.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

If you were told to do something, and you've agreed to do so, that constitutes a verbal contract. Just as valid as any written contract would be. Proving it is another matter, but why would you go ahead and change something on your own without any outside input.

 

[hurk27]

Here you have 60 days from the last time of work on the property to file a lien, here they hold the property owner as the ultimate responsible party such as a home owner who had a house built or a corporation who had a set of apartments built, HUD does not rent apartments, they provide assistance to renters of qualified section 8 apartment owners, so there is an owner of the building who had it built, but laws will vary from state to state and as was said, for that amount of money I would contact a good lawyer who is well versed in construction laws of your state, in most cases they would even collect their fees or at least some of them from the responsible party or at least add it to the collected amount.

Make sure you have the paperwork saved, and try to get the request of the requirement from the city who required the light change, this and the good faith of making the change can go a long way with a verbal contract as proof of the request of the change, but act quickly as you might not have allot of time to file, also try to bill the owners of the property so you will have proof of first trying to attempt a collection, or have your lawyer do it, you should be able to get the info on who actually owns the building from the city/county.

 

[__dan]

OP says this was a HUD housing project and liens were mentioned several times so far. Can you even file a lien against what very well may be government owned property? May not be federal government property but could be local government property that receives HUD funds for operation.

I liened a HUD owned historical victorian group home, ~ 5000 sf, one of my first jobs in business ~1991. Me and the cabinet guy. Most of the other guys noticed the bond company. There were like 28 sub trades and the only guy who got paid was there one day to fix broken windows.

I don't know if it worked or not. HUD sent me a nice "sorry for your distress" letter and since you are a (third party), get it from the GC. One good thing that happened was I was listed on every job meeting agenda after that, make sure __dan gets paid, and the GC was calling me, I did not have to call them.

They wanted the lien off and I was not taking it off until I got the check. Finally the GC just lied to me and said I would have the check next week if I took the lein off. I did and the GC just kept lying and spinning my wheels, never got the final check. I trusted people and expected them to do the right thing without having to use a cattle prod on them. Trusting in what is right is fatal for a contractor.

I was also told I could foreclose on the lien if I had $700,000. That shut them up when they tried to dog my lien at the job meetings.

Lien the thing and let them prove the lien is somehow defective. It may not work but may noticeably improve your peace of mind, feel better about it.

And I agree, they ordered the work, as necessary to meet code, and you have a verbal contract.

 

[69gp]

Just want to thank everyone for the input provided. I know I should not have proceeded without the paperwork but like I said I was comfortable with everyone involved and thought I would be paid.

Shame on me.

 

[dduffee260]

No payment and performance bond on this project? I thought this or any type of HUD project would require a bond by the GC. Turn in your claim to the bonding company. Better file a letter of intent to lien before it's too late.