grounding electrode conductor material

[stew]

Can anyone tell me where in the code it says anything other than what is said in 250.62 about the conductor. It says in the last sentence that it shall be solid or stranded insulated ore bare. Where does it ever say it needs to be green? or identified as green? Have an inspector that swears there are several cross references that tell you it has to be the same as an equipment ground. Can anyone manufacture his reference and tie it back to 250.62?

 

[Buck Parrish]

It can be black, copper or green. No reference though.
Perhaps he's thinking of the color in conduit for #6 or smaller. What size is yours?

 

[david]

Can anyone tell me where in the code it says anything other than what is said in 250.62 about the conductor. It says in the last sentence that it shall be solid or stranded insulated ore bare. Where does it ever say it needs to be green? or identified as green? Have an inspector that swears there are several cross references that tell you it has to be the same as an equipment ground. Can anyone manufacture his reference and tie it back to 250.62?

There is no requirement grounding electrode conductors be identified green

 

[infinity]

A little graphic help:

 

[stew]

Hmmm Had I not been in a position to get this inspected immediatley so my customer could get the inspection report to the bank asap I would have had him go ahead and cite me like he threatened to do and refence the code article he seems to think exists.. He said well if you want I can just give you a correction basically saying make it green or I write it!. I did not agree but aquiessed to his demand and threat of a correction and put some dang grren tape on my black insulated # 6 (not in pipe). There is nowhere that I know of where it crossreferences and says in some other part of 250 to do what he absolutley believes needs to be. He told me I had to read the grounding electrode section so i " understood it". When in the first part of our conversation I said that 250.62 said nothing about color thats when he got pissy!. Then hes got the gall to ask me how long I have been doing this! Only 38 years and its been cussed and discussed many many times in code classes,grounding training yada yada. If its there where? We parted on good terms and of course it passed but this guy is a veteran and says he going to retire next year when he turns 70.He can then rewrite the code in his memoirs any way he chooses eh? lol Oh well semiretirement is fun for me sometimes. lololol

 

[stew]

A little graphic help:

I also have this image Rob. It will be the one I fax to him with 250.62 attached for his review and "understanding" now that the panel is passed and hes gone away happy with his misknowledge. lol Perhaps he can invent something noone else has thought of?

 

[ptonsparky]

So similar

So similar

This thread is so similar to my situation I'll just add.

I am starting work on a building with a new to me GC. Even though I have been doing work for the building owner for 30+ years, it was a bid project so there was no guarantee that I had it. I had told the owner and left messages for the GC that whoever was doing the electrical needed to know before footings were poured. I found out two days after the fact.:? Ok, there are vertical rebar that I know are well tied. GC leaves message that he wants two bonds and he wants them protected as they come out of the stem wall. Ok. We sleeve them in PVC for a couple foot before we tie to two of his vertical rebar. Now he comes back that the wire must be insulated. Worried about corrosion.

I have been known on occasion to be a complete overbearing AH but I prefer not, especially when the project is just starting.

I will try first with 250.52 and 250.62 along with the image above to see how it flies, then revert to COAH, then again maybe not.

 

[stew]

Not one to let sleeping dogs lie and for my own stubborness I actually reviewed the articles in 250 re grounding electrodes 250.62,main bonding jumpers 250.28(A) and 250.119 equipment grounding conductors. The only conductor in 250 that is REQUIRED to be green or identified is an equipment grounding conductor as specified in 250.119 as far as I can determine. Although it may be common practice to use green tape or green wire for that matter the code does not require it anywhere but in 250.119 . He offered at the time to show me in the code book where it was and if I would have had time I would have had this discussion directly with him then. However since they were to have done this inspection the previous day in the AM and didnt show after I had waited most of the morning for them and then complained to get it rescheduled for yesterday AM and then was left a message that they couldnt get to it again til the afternoon "maybe" I was in no mood to do so. Not only do we have to put up with the chasing the inspector game they are overbooked most of the time and have absolutley no concept of what a contractors or homeowner/business owners time is worth nor do they seem to care. Napoleon complexin this case and glad I was there or he would have held up a pending close even more than they had already after I gave them 3 full days prioir to the first inspection day to schedule this 20 minute inspection! Probably would have gotten a correction that referenced all of 250 with no specific code reference number lol. Dang this trade is fun sometimes!! Hope everyone has a great Memorial Day and God bless all who have ever served our country!!!

 

[kwired]

Not one to let sleeping dogs lie and for my own stubborness I actually reviewed the articles in 250 re grounding electrodes 250.62,main bonding jumpers 250.28(A) and 250.119 equipment grounding conductors. The only conductor in 250 that is REQUIRED to be green or identified is an equipment grounding conductor as specified in 250.119 as far as I can determine. Although it may be common practice to use green tape or green wire for that matter the code does not require it anywhere but in 250.119 . He offered at the time to show me in the code book where it was and if I would have had time I would have had this discussion directly with him then. However since they were to have done this inspection the previous day in the AM and didnt show after I had waited most of the morning for them and then complained to get it rescheduled for yesterday AM and then was left a message that they couldnt get to it again til the afternoon "maybe" I was in no mood to do so. Not only do we have to put up with the chasing the inspector game they are overbooked most of the time and have absolutley no concept of what a contractors or homeowner/business owners time is worth nor do they seem to care. Napoleon complexin this case and glad I was there or he would have held up a pending close even more than they had already after I gave them 3 full days prioir to the first inspection day to schedule this 20 minute inspection! Probably would have gotten a correction that referenced all of 250 with no specific code reference number lol. Dang this trade is fun sometimes!! Hope everyone has a great Memorial Day and God bless all who have ever served our country!!!

Actually since this is not an equipment grounding conductor, one could argue if it is even allowed to be green or marked green or green with yellow stripes. All those identification methods are pretty much reserved for equipment grounding conductors, not grounding electrode conductors or even for grounded service conductors, yet all of them tie together at the service equipment.

 

[Vector]

A little graphic help:

Where do you find images like this? I see that it says Mike Holt on it, but I can't find it on his website.

 

[stew]

Like I said I never let sleeping dogs lie when I know I am right. Love ya Kwired! I will argue that its not supposed to be identified just for drill! lol Cause you know that now this is all done We (me and the inspector at least ) WILL have a discussioin on this. will love to see him flop around in his code book looking for nonexistant answers!!

 

[Vector]

I'd give him the information but leave it at that.

There were many times where I wanted to really unleash on inspectors for making bad calls, but I was glad that I didn't when later they were inspecting other jobs and didn't harass me on little trivial things.

 

[ptonsparky]

I'd give him the information but leave it at that.

There were many times where I wanted to really unleash on inspectors for making bad calls, but I was glad that I didn't when later they were inspecting other jobs and didn't harass me on little trivial things.

Might be the wiser choice but so hard to do. Think of last discussion with your spouse that you won. Did you really win?

 

[kwired]

Might be the wiser choice but so hard to do. Think of last discussion with your spouse that you won. Did you really win?

If the wife is happy, everybody is happy. I call that a win even if I did not get what I wanted.:happyyes:

I don't have to see the inspector every day so a win there is not really the same.

 

[stew]

I'd give him the information but leave it at that.

There were many times where I wanted to really unleash on inspectors for making bad calls, but I was glad that I didn't when later they were inspecting other jobs and didn't harass me on little trivial things.

oh believe me I have seen others cut thier own thraots with inspectors. However I a always do it as a discussion not a confronation. I couch it in terms that let him still be the boss but subtley let my opinion in. I am very careful with how I deal with these guys but if he is the one out there teaching the code incorrectly is worse than if a master electrician does so in my opinion because he is supposedly the "last word" lol

 

[infinity]

Where do you find images like this? I see that it says Mike Holt on it, but I can't find it on his website.

Mike has lots of free stuff, look here:


http://www.mikeholt.com/videographicsintro.php

 

[jumper]

Actually since this is not an equipment grounding conductor, one could argue if it is even allowed to be green or marked green or green with yellow stripes. All those identification methods are pretty much reserved for equipment grounding conductors, not grounding electrode conductors or even for grounded service conductors, yet all of them tie together at the service equipment.

I am bored, I will argue it.

250.119....
Conductors with insulation or individual covering that is green,
green with one or more yellow stripes, or otherwise identified
as permitted by this section shall not be used for ungrounded
or grounded circuit conductors.

A GEC is not a circuit conductor.

 

[kwired]

I am bored, I will argue it.

250.119....
Conductors with insulation or individual covering that is green,
green with one or more yellow stripes, or otherwise identified
as permitted by this section shall not be used for ungrounded
or grounded circuit conductors.

A GEC is not a circuit conductor.

I can agree with you there, except for the fact that section does not prohibit nor does it promote using green or green with yellow stripes for grounding electrode conductors.