EPA lead certification

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Rewire

Rewire

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Location
Lake of the Ozarks
How many have gone to class and paid their fee to become certified? Was treading an article about how the EPA was preparing to step up enforcement. I dont know exactly what they are going to do but I know fines can be stiff. We have been certified for two years and now we are promoting this to management companies.
 
Rewire said:
How many have gone to class and paid their fee to become certified? Was treading an article about how the EPA was preparing to step up enforcement. I dont know exactly what they are going to do but I know fines can be stiff. We have been certified for two years and now we are promoting this to management companies.
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Last summer my son went ahead and got certified. We have yet to register the company. (Shows how much we really care.) It seems that very few people really care. However the state I live in WA. does their own policing and it's just a matter of time before it's a big issue.

Last summer I tried to get our supply house to sponsor a lead class, they tried for two months and was met with so much resistance they dropped it. We contractors are already heavily regulated and are loathe to have to qualify and pay for, lead certification! I know of two GC's that were fed up and quit the business over the lead thing. We ECs are already having to deal with the unreasonable rates quoted by the start ups, and trunk slammers, imagine having to add the cost of hazardous clean up to a bid, when the odds of an non lead certified contractor bidding against you are very high.

RW
 
wolfman56 said:
Last summer my son went ahead and got certified. We have yet to register the company. (Shows how much we really care.) It seems that very few people really care. However the state I live in WA. does their own policing and it's just a matter of time before it's a big issue.

RW
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i pulled the cert... if i need it, it's there, but i've been busy with commercial, so it's not been an issue.

i won't register with the EPA until i have work that requires it. nobody in their right mind would.

i've not seen any significant compliance from any of the contractors around here i've observed
doing work... and there is a sting operation in the affluent south orange county areas, targeting
this type of work.
 
wolfman56 said:
Last summer my son went ahead and got certified. We have yet to register the company. (Shows how much we really care.) It seems that very few people really care. However the state I live in WA. does their own policing and it's just a matter of time before it's a big issue.

Last summer I tried to get our supply house to sponsor a lead class, they tried for two months and was met with so much resistance they dropped it. We contractors are already heavily regulated and are loathe to have to qualify and pay for, lead certification! I know of two GC's that were fed up and quit the business over the lead thing. We ECs are already having to deal with the unreasonable rates quoted by the start ups, and trunk slammers, imagine having to add the cost of hazardous clean up to a bid, when the odds of an non lead certified contractor bidding against you are very high.

RW
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And add to all that the codes changes in recent years specifically related to dwellings. Who in their right mind wants to work in the residential market outside of maybe new construction?

You all need to aim lower as I will be ducking when I hit the submit button.:)
 
Rewire said:
How many have gone to class and paid their fee to become certified? Was treading an article about how the EPA was preparing to step up enforcement. I dont know exactly what they are going to do but I know fines can be stiff. We have been certified for two years and now we are promoting this to management companies.
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I did a couple of years ago. IMO, it's a complete waste of time and money.
 
I believe the states must go after the home owners for not using licensed contractors and go after so called contractors that do not do business the legal way. It seems like (at least in California) the more legit and law abiding a contractor becomes, the more road blocks are placed in front of him.
The EPA lead certification may be a good thing, but do not punish the contractor only, equally punish the homeowner who did not hire the legit contractor.

Once the word gets out that homeowners are being fined for not using legit contractors then it will be fair.
 
Rewire said:
How many have gone to class and paid their fee to become certified?
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I work almost exclusively on old houses. It was a necessary business expense.

Even though there's no local enforcement, I try to be diligent about containment and cleanup even when I don't trigger the actual RRP square footage requirements. It's just part of maintaining a reputation for doing things right, I reckon.
 
I should add that very few rewiring jobs have triggered the RRP strictures for me. A room full of cut-ins isn't enough to get you there. But pull off an old baseboard and you'll get there in a hurry.
 
edward said:
I believe the states must go after the home owners for not using licensed contractors and go after so called contractors that do not do business the legal way. It seems like (at least in California) the more legit and law abiding a contractor becomes, the more road blocks are placed in front of him.
The EPA lead certification may be a good thing, but do not punish the contractor only, equally punish the homeowner who did not hire the legit contractor.

Once the word gets out that homeowners are being fined for not using legit contractors then it will be fair.
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That is not the answer either. Why punish homeowners for something they know nothing about? If they are going to target someone how about the people that are actually doing something wrong, like the non licensed people that are doing such activities?
 
ceknight said:
I should add that very few rewiring jobs have triggered the RRP strictures for me. A room full of cut-ins isn't enough to get you there. But pull off an old baseboard and you'll get there in a hurry.
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calif. isn't like that. no "six squares".....

any disturbance requires the full thing.
including cutting in a single one gang box.

the irony is, if you are using something like
a fein tool to cut drywall, with an approved
shop vac sucking it up as you go, there isn't
any dust.... at all. it's called "good craftsmanship."

the madness of it all.
 
kwired said:
That is not the answer either. Why punish homeowners for something they know nothing about? If they are going to target someone how about the people that are actually doing something wrong, like the non licensed people that are doing such activities?
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they don't have a license.
often, they don't speak english.
sometimes, they don't legally even have the right to be here,
let alone work here.

how you planning on making them stop?

the illegal, undocumented, non english speaking person,
who was in the employ of a body shop, who did a hit and
run on my wife's car, with myself and her in it, IN A CUSTOMERS CAR,
and i had to chase for about 9 miles to get him to stop, and
wait 30 minutes for an officer to respond......

the officer wouldn't even cite him.

they did impound the car. that way you can get impound fees
from the body shop owner, who was employing the illegal.
they weren't punished, either.

what deterrent did you have in mind? shooting them seems
somewhat extreme, altho not excessively.
 
Fulthrotl said:
they don't have a license.
often, they don't speak english.
sometimes, they don't legally even have the right to be here,
let alone work here.

how you planning on making them stop?

the illegal, undocumented, non english speaking person,
who was in the employ of a body shop, who did a hit and
run on my wife's car, with myself and her in it, IN A CUSTOMERS CAR,
and i had to chase for about 9 miles to get him to stop, and
wait 30 minutes for an officer to respond......

the officer wouldn't even cite him.

they did impound the car. that way you can get impound fees
from the body shop owner, who was employing the illegal.
they weren't punished, either.

what deterrent did you have in mind? shooting them seems
somewhat extreme, altho not excessively.
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I don't know how to straighten out some of the messes we have in this society, and that starts to get into political discussion so I will leave it at that. But I also don't think it is fair to penalize someone that did nothing wrong. If I pay someone operating a business to receive goods or services, am I required to know everything there is to know about the kind of business they are in so that I will know if they are legitimate? Population in your area vs mine presents other problems. In some areas you likely have more people living in just a couple square miles than we have in the whole county of about 900 square miles.
 
kwired said:
That is not the answer either. Why punish homeowners for something they know nothing about? If they are going to target someone how about the people that are actually doing something wrong, like the non licensed people that are doing such activities?
Click to expand...

The homeowner knows because the good contractor explains to the owner what the Line item is (EPA clean up) yet the owner decides to do something cheaper and use the contractor/handyman/weekend warrior that does not have the EPA option on their contract.

The owner does not have to get certified about the EPA certification but they are being told what the job requires and yet they say "screw the EPA and we will go with another contractor that is cheaper"

The cycle is bad, the good contractor can not get a project because of following the law and the other non certified contractor flourishes just fine.

There is something wrong.
 
Two pages - I thought by now someone would have posted something relevant! Not to insult anyone, but you're all missing the relevant points.

First, the EPA is getting a lot of resistance, even lawsuits and action from Congress, in opposition to the RRP rules. If you don't like them, NOW is the time to lend some support to the NAHB. The National Association of Home Builders has been leading the charge to overturn RRP.

Second, the RRP rules, and their enforcement, has very little to do with whether you used the right vacuum. Like the OSHA rules, enforcement is designed to be 'paperwork heavy.'

Regardless of how much you disturb the finish, you still need to be certified. You still need to test. You still need to provide the official booklet AND HAVE THE CUSTOMER SIGN FOR IT. The EPA enforcement is focused on the paperwork.

I had a conscientious contractor replace a few windows - no lead was found, or disturbed. Still, the required paperwork meant that his guy showed up with a binder of forms. Some I signed and he took; the rest, and the binder, I kept. FWIW, this binder included warranty information, our contract (2 page), and other materials not related to RRP.

As usual, the EPA has pilloried a few folks, wishing to make examples to inspire the rest of us. So far, their biggest action appears to have been against a 'flipper' and the day-labor crew he had.
 
Get certified, pay more in Insurance costs and take on more liability?

Get certified, pay more in Insurance costs and take on more liability?

When this was first being discussed I talked to my insurance broker about if a Lead certification would cost me more in premiums. His answer was of course it would. We as contractors ought to be requiring any potential client to sign a disclosure statment to us on if or how many unlicensed contractors or unqualified Electricians have ever worked on their property prior to our involvement in specific project. In a older building I would just as soon sub out any wall cutting to the sheet rock/plastering companies, let them carry that extra liability. :rant:
In the mean time just like has been noted earlier, most of the work for ungrateful / cheap homeowners has already gone away to those unlicensed individuals that the CSLB doesn't know what/doesn't care what to do with them. If they're already breaking the rules what's their downside to breaking that rule also?

P.S. I'm just ticking off a few short years till retirement, those younger can deal with this cra_.
 
renosteinke said:
Two pages - I thought by now someone would have posted something relevant!
Not to insult anyone, but you're all missing the relevant points.
Click to expand...

let's see... some of the points covered were.....

it's stupid
you have to do it anyway
people who don't do it are making more money
it's harder to do all this crap for free, and turn a profit.
the government if they can will take all your money (generic statement)
if you use a good vacuum and good housekeeping, it works, and it's illegal.

went over this afternoon to the pretty island, and snoodled a 6-2 across the
crawl space to feed a new AC. had to make a small hole in a new wall under
an electric panel. wall is 5 years old, added when the house was completely
redone. house was a down to the studs redo.

so, the drywall i cut was 5 years old. framing it sits on dates from the same time.
does it require RRP 'cause the original structure was build in 1927, and has
full dimensional lumber?

cut the hole with a fein tool and a festool RRP vac. put one of those little oatey
abs access panels in place of the drywall.

was there any violation of RRP practices in doing this?
 
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