raceway versus raceway and ground wire

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DW98

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just a general question for contractors, other engineers, etc. Do you use the raceway solely as the ground or the ground and raceway? Just curious what others do, I specify both.
 
DW98 said:
just a general question for contractors, other engineers, etc. Do you use the raceway solely as the ground or the ground and raceway? Just curious what others do, I specify both.
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Everything we do a grounding conductor is pulled and connected. But we do communication shelters and that is in every spec we see.
 
We typically specify a copper ground for everything. The only exception I can think of off-hand is if we're re-using an existing conduit and adding a ground wire would put us over 40% fill. In those cases, if the conduit is currently being used as an EGC and the Electrical Contractor tells us that he's comfortable with it (no evidence of breaks, high-resistance connections, etc.), then we'll go ahead and continue using the conduit as an EGC. If it's just an old spare conduit and we don't really know anything about it, we have the Electrical Contractor verify the continuity/low resistance path before approving its use as an EGC.
 
My bet is the majority of people who always pull, or always specify a wire EGC are those who do not pay for it.

It is very easy to always go an extra step when the cost does not come out of your own pocket.

A raceway provides a lower impedance path than the wire EGC that would be pulled inside it.
 
iwire said:
My bet is the majority of people who always pull, or always specify a wire EGC are those who do not pay for it.
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Not so sure about, the general public is often hung up on overkill- as an example:
Most non professional people/diyers involved in residential or commercial electrical that I have I have met all want nothing but #12 and 20A circuits for general purpose receptacles and lighting.

It is very easy to always go an extra step when the cost does not come out of your own pocket.
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True.

A raceway provides a lower impedance path than the wire EGC that would be pulled inside it.
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Agreed, but again, in my experience, the general public/customer does not know that and I am told to run a wire EGC despite the fact the circuit is in steel conduit.

More often than not I find that it is the customer who wants it.

I guess it gives them a warm and fuzzy feeling for some reason.:)
 
I guess we disagree there, I find most customers (the ones that sign the checks) just want it to work. It is their minions, the EEs, the well intended in house facilities people, etc. that ask for more.
 
iwire said:
I guess we disagree there, I find most customers (the ones that sign the checks) just want it to work. It is their minions, the EEs, the well intended in house facilities people, etc. that ask for more.
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I would not say that we disagree, it is just that our experiences are different. Your points are perfectly valid IMO.

I agree that steel conduit is a good EGC, it is just that the people that I have worked for want a wire EGC.

I get paid by the hour, so I just do what I am told.
 
I have found that customers just want it to work in most cases.

Some will want things they read about but maybe don't fully understand.

I always have people wanting their receptacles on 30 amp circuits and have to explain why I can't do that, then they still don't really get it.

I also wish Square D would quit putting the AIC rating on the operator face in high contrasting print of the QO line especially. For years I have had people calling me when they have problems and they tell me they have a 10 amp breaker and want to know why it isn't higher rating than that.
 
I don't much care one way or the other. I don't like the set screw and dimple type EMT used as the sole EGC, having seen a bunch of it come apart over the years. Don't like LFMC or FMC for the same reason.
 
petersonra said:
I don't much care one way or the other. I don't like the set screw and dimple type EMT used as the sole EGC, having seen a bunch of it come apart over the years. Don't like LFMC or FMC for the same reason.
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I have seen many wirenuts falling off EGCs over the years. I guess wire EGCs are no good either.
 
I have had a few other electricians balk at the thought of not running a separate EGC in a metal raceway. They always have some story of a broken or pulled apart fitting, which I can't disagree would be a problem. But I also find that when you run into broken or pulled apart fittings you usually also have improperly secured/supported installation that contributed to it being that way.

I don't buy the set screw being loose plead. Yes they can be loose, but it is just as easy for a compression fitting to be loose. It is usually easier to spot a loose set screw than it is to spot a loose compression nut.
 
iwire said:
By far in building wiring, no vibration, the EGCs are often made up poorly.
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You mean it's not ok to put 10 or 14 or more #12 ground wires in one red wirenut? :lol:

As for EGC's in conduit, my friend is doing a budget EMT job. See if you can guess if he is running a separate ground wire in the EMT? ;)
 
Since a metal raceway is an acceptable equipment ground, we use it.. we just recently went through inspection on a parallel feeder and was asked if we could guarantee the fittings were wrench tight and asked what the resistance of the raceway was?. Umm yes and near 0- followed by how do I find raceway properties in the NEC including tubing resistance values? not saying its a bad thing to pull in though.
 
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