Elevator starter burned?

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Toros

Senior Member
Location
Tujunga, CA
Hi, I recently provided 208v, 3-phase power to the elevator machine through its starter. Now the Elevator company (Shindler) blaming me that the starter is burned out because of our wiring. Nameplate of the starter calls, 200v, 240v, 460v what did I do wrong????? Please advise. Thank you
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Hi, I recently provided 208v, 3-phase power to the elevator machine through its starter. Now the Elevator company (Shindler) blaming me that the starter is burned out because of our wiring. Nameplate of the starter calls, 200v, 240v, 460v what did I do wrong????? Please advise. Thank you

Yes, but which one of those voltages was the started configured for? Since the started is dumb, it doesn't hae the capablility to automatically adjust itself to a given choice of voltages. Was the starter configured for 460v and you applied 208?
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Burned, how ??
Coil was burned ?
The nameplate voltages you list are probably correspond to the HP at each voltage.
The coil voltage would not necessarily be evident from the nametag at all.
Do you know the coil operating voltage and do you know the voltage you applied to the coil ?
 

Toros

Senior Member
Location
Tujunga, CA
elevator starter burned

elevator starter burned

I think the starter was set at 460 v but I powered 208v (it was 100A rated, 3-phase multi-voltage starter for the 35 HP 3-phase elevator) I may have to talk to technical support of the elevator company "privately"????
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
I think the starter was set at 460 v but I powered 208v (it was 100A rated, 3-phase multi-voltage starter for the 35 HP 3-phase elevator) I may have to talk to technical support of the elevator company "privately"????
35HP is not a standard motor size, but 40HP is over 100A FLC at 208V. You likely used too small of a motor starter, and given that you seem unclear on the concepts here, I'd say you were not qualified to do this sort of work. Sorry to be blunt, but that's just how I see it.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Hi, I recently provided 208v, 3-phase power to the elevator machine through its starter. Now the Elevator company (Shindler) blaming me that the starter is burned out because of our wiring. Nameplate of the starter calls, 200v, 240v, 460v what did I do wrong????? Please advise. Thank you

I'd say you were not qualified to do this sort of work. Sorry to be blunt, but that's just how I see it.


Qualified or not qualified I don't think the electrician should be blamed for a start up on the elevator.

The elevator company should provide their own people do do any start-up and any internal straping or retaping of motors or tranformer coils. Most equipment comes with an installation and start-up manual and I seriously doubt if this was provided to the electrician.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Hi, I recently provided 208v, 3-phase power to the elevator machine through its starter. Now the Elevator company (Shindler) blaming me that the starter is burned out because of our wiring. Nameplate of the starter calls, 200v, 240v, 460v what did I do wrong????? Please advise. Thank you

I agree with augie47, those voltages are NEMA motor voltage ratings except the 240 volt which should be 230 volts, I have never seen or heard of a starter coil with more then two voltage ratings and generally would look like this on the coil itself: 240/480vac or if it is allowed on 208 it would look like this 208-240/480 volts, you generally only find the coil voltage on the coil or the box the starter comes in, it would not be on the frame of the starter as the rating of the starter is placed there.

Also dual voltage coils will have 4 terminals that you move jumpers to change the voltage, if you don't have these then you have a single voltage coil starter.

My question is what part of the starter burned up, if it was the coil then it was over voltage or under voltage, under voltage will burn up a coil just as fast if not faster then over voltage just because if the coil can not pull in the plunger (armature) it will pull a high current beyond the rating of the coil.
if it was the contacts then Jraef has it correct as the contacts are rated by the HP at the voltage rating of the motor to be controlled, but I disagree that its a starter you used as I would believe it would have been provided by the elevator company that would have been design around their motor and its HP and voltage rating.

If it is a hydraulic operated elevator then you will have just a single motor starter, but if it is cable operated then you should have a reversing starter which is basically two contactors with a single overload block that are all mounted on a single frame with a mechanical interlock between the two to keep one from operating when the other is pulled in.

I would question if the wrong voltage rating was given to the elevator company when it was spec'd, also I find it strange that you had to do any wiring after the elevator disconnect, as here the elevator company takes over from our disconnect and we do not touch any wiring of the elevator, as was said because of liability only the elevator company is allowed to do the wiring and start up of the elevator for it's commissioning, here in Indiana only a license elevator company can do this work because of the life safety issues that could arise if something were to go wrong.

I will not even touch the wiring of a small home elevator, it's just not worth the cost of the liability if something was to fail even if it wasn't your fault, unless you are a certified elevator technician and have met the requirement of your state to work on elevators, never touch an elevators electrical controls, supply the required disconnect and let them take it from there.
 
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Toros

Senior Member
Location
Tujunga, CA
burned elevator starter case

burned elevator starter case

Thank you hunk27 + ujea47
I think your responds will be the most helpfull ones to .....
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
In my state electricians cannot wire or work on an elevator, my work stops at the disconnect in the machine room.

Beyond that it is the elevator techs that handle it and even if it was shown I provided the wrong voltage it would be 100% the fault of the elevator techs for running the unit without them verifying correct voltage first.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
In my state electricians cannot wire or work on an elevator, my work stops at the disconnect in the machine room.

Beyond that it is the elevator techs that handle it and even if it was shown I provided the wrong voltage it would be 100% the fault of the elevator techs for running the unit without them verifying correct voltage first.


It's the same here, we can't work on elevators.


If I were to run 208V 3 phase to a disconnect then I would label the disconnect with the voltage provided and that's it for me. I run whatever is shown on a drawing or provided on the work order.

I think that if an elevator company had the electrician doing more than that it would be wrong.
 

Toros

Senior Member
Location
Tujunga, CA
Innocenct -Elevator power hook up

Innocenct -Elevator power hook up

Hi everybody again,
About my case'

All I did here , just provided 208V, 3-phase power through a properly sized disc. switch & all wiring material according to elect. Engineer design/plan to the elevator machine , or all the way to the starter's in-coming lugs which are called T1, T@, & T3.

After that point elevator technition configured & installed wiring.......

Elevator rating was: 200V, 3-phase, 100A & the starter wired by technicians was for Delta configuration .
I think they did not read the fat note or sticker on starter stating "Starter wired for Delta configuration, damaged could be done if power supply is other than Delta"

I think they have to configure wiring from starter to motor for in-line configuration.

Don't you all juries thing that I am innocent here.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Hi everybody again,
About my case'

All I did here , just provided 208V, 3-phase power through a properly sized disc. switch & all wiring material according to elect. Engineer design/plan to the elevator machine , or all the way to the starter's in-coming lugs which are called T1, T@, & T3.

After that point elevator technician configured & installed wiring.......

Elevator rating was: 200V, 3-phase, 100A & the starter wired by technicians was for Delta configuration .
I think they did not read the fat note or sticker on starter stating "Starter wired for Delta configuration, damaged could be done if power supply is other than Delta"

I think they have to configure wiring from starter to motor for in-line configuration.

Don't you all juries thing that I am innocent here.

A 200 volt rating is a NEMA rating for a motor on a 208 volt WYE system, there is no such thing as a 208 delta, I would believe this is the manufactures fault as I can't see how it can cause damage if wired on a WYE system and the fact that they supplied it rated for 208 volts which is a WYE system and one of the most common three phase voltages in the US.

A starter is nothing but a set of contacts how can you wire it delta or WYE? that just does not make any sense, some motors can be wired WYE or Delta but not a starter.

Here is a NEMA voltage chart, notice the listings for motors, a motor designed to run on 208 will have a 200 volt rating.

ANSIC841.jpg
 
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