I have submitted bids before, and I'm always curious if I'm presenting things the right way. Is anyone willing to share a copy of a bid proposal? How much scope do you list without boring them with details? I feel I have lost jobs maybe due to complexity? Any help, suggestions, or whatever, it would be appreciated. I've got a large bid coming up, so I just want my pencil to be sharp, and get to the point. Thanks. GK
What your Bid proposals look like
- Thread starter gk351
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If you make your proposals short on words you will lose more bids because you need too convince the client that the job is worth it,you want to show value.
If you make them short and to the point then they will think it's easy and therefore it should be cheap.
MichaelKelley
Member
I completely agree with the point said above, the bid proposals should be according to how big your proposal is? You need to make it clear enough for them to understand that the work for which you are bidding is worth these explanation.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
True, but remember the client is probably not an electrician, so don't get too involved in details they won't understand either. Give them descriptions of what they will be getting in terms that are meaningful to them as a user, and not necessarily in trade terms and technical details.
Type of installation to be done makes some difference also. If doing work for an industrial facility a little more technicalities maybe are necessary, to make a proposal for an addition to a dwelling not so much.
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
What kind of bid are you referring to? There are many different approaches. If it were a residential house, apartment complex, competitive bid to several GC's, one of three bids to a single construction manager, commercial, industrial, design build. Each one warrants a different strategy. For a couple of examples:
Residential would basically state, underground (same side) or overhead service, light cans and trim by us, all other fixtures either by owner, or owner provided, installed by us. list any special loads that aren't clear on the plan, either included or excluded, and the a blanket statement per current NEC and local codes.
Design build I would give the criteria, without giving away the work (calculations, sizes, fixture design and layout) that they can use to find someone cheaper.
Commercial competitive, mostly the items like concrete, trenching, fire alarm etc., overtime, acceleration clauses, that I have included or excluded, and the blanket NEC statement.
To a Construction Manager that I know and who will scope out the work. As detailed as possible to give them a good idea of what is necessary to complete the project as needed. That way if you include things that others missed, the CM will know to ask in the scope meeting whether these items are covered.
Residential would basically state, underground (same side) or overhead service, light cans and trim by us, all other fixtures either by owner, or owner provided, installed by us. list any special loads that aren't clear on the plan, either included or excluded, and the a blanket statement per current NEC and local codes.
Design build I would give the criteria, without giving away the work (calculations, sizes, fixture design and layout) that they can use to find someone cheaper.
Commercial competitive, mostly the items like concrete, trenching, fire alarm etc., overtime, acceleration clauses, that I have included or excluded, and the blanket NEC statement.
To a Construction Manager that I know and who will scope out the work. As detailed as possible to give them a good idea of what is necessary to complete the project as needed. That way if you include things that others missed, the CM will know to ask in the scope meeting whether these items are covered.
We make variable speed drive systems for the most part so I probably can't help except maybe in a general sort of way.
I start by addressing the person then referencing the project with the customer's reference (if there is one) and our own reference number. Each enquiry gets its own number generated sequentially and that number sticks with it throughout its life.
I then list the sections that the bid will be broken down into. Typically like this.
The bid comprises the following sections:
Section 1. Scope of Supply
Section 2. Exclusions*
Section 3. Induction motor data
Section 4. Technical Description and Specifications for Inverters.
Section 5. Technical Data for Inverters
Section 6. Price Schedules
Section 7. Terms and Conditions
Each section then has a fuller description. How detailed depends really on what is being bid. In this particular case it was a fairly large drive and the customer wanted a lot of technical stuff.
*Exclusions. I think it's as important to set out what you not going to do/be responsible for. For example, if we are doing an upgrade or replacement there is likely to be redundant parts and we could get stuck with clearing the site. It's OK if it's been allowed for it but so if you haven't.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
mostly we bid to spec so it will reference the spec and any clarifications and exceptions.
sometimes things are in the spec that are not really part of our scope of supply and we try to make that clear as well.
we have a fair number of 6 digit proposals that are a single page email with a couple of T&C pages added.
if there is no spec, or something very vague it may get to be a couple pages longer.
one customer makes us fill out a bunch of other forms that go with it, but it is mostly stuff that has little to do with the actual project.
sometimes things are in the spec that are not really part of our scope of supply and we try to make that clear as well.
we have a fair number of 6 digit proposals that are a single page email with a couple of T&C pages added.
if there is no spec, or something very vague it may get to be a couple pages longer.
one customer makes us fill out a bunch of other forms that go with it, but it is mostly stuff that has little to do with the actual project.
This job is for a fertilizer blending facility. They will be building a storage building with blending capability inside. It has quite a few 480V motors, all PVC, VFD,s some lighting. This bid is very vague. The company who sells the blending system lists all the motors provided, and what panel they derive from. There own touch panel, control panel and supposedly VFD's are provided. But we have to provide all Comm Cable, VFD cable, and 480V lines. The company has there own electrician, but he retired in January, so he is over seeing this project. He is purchasing for the Company, the Service equipment, disconnects(not all are stainless-mistake!), and pretty much everything that has a Square D name on it. There no official blueprints, no engineering, just a drawing from the company who makes the system.
Its a large crapshoot. I will sit down and figure out what i think it will take, and pad my bid from there. I wish they state "We have this, and we need this" and let the EC take care of the rest, but I will gladly accept the job if they offer, regardless who buys the Service Equipment.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I hate when people want a price from you, yet you don't know what it will take to get it done. They don't always get the fact that equipment like this isn't simple plug and play, and if it were, they probably wouldn't be looking for an electrician either.
I went and looked at facility similar to this one. Im pretty sure the other EC's havent. This job will take alot wiring, whether 480v, Comm, or the VFD control. Combine it with the fertiler atmosphere and all the pre-concrete work, it will be no small bid.
Sad part is, the Company Elect who is heading this up, is in my opinion a hack. Ive seen his work, and his project planning follows that as well. I will have large disclaimers saying I wont be liable for parts left out of the bidding process, due to him!
Sad part is, the Company Elect who is heading this up, is in my opinion a hack. Ive seen his work, and his project planning follows that as well. I will have large disclaimers saying I wont be liable for parts left out of the bidding process, due to him!
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
you are selling pipe, wire, and labor to install.
fertilizer? if it's nitrate based, is any of this classified locations?
if they are this vague, then sell them labor only. they buy all the
stuff. otherwise, you are buying whatever their electrician wants
you to buy, on a hard quote. this isn't gonna go well.
if it were me, i'd quote a cost not to exceed whatever billable
hours you want to get out of this. this is going to be a crapshoot
with no clear definition of scope of work, and with you essentially
working for a retired electrician who is gonna run it.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
If you have drawings from the manufacturer, you can bid that at a fixed price.
If you have nothing to base the rest of the bid on, just say so in your bid and say anything outside of the specified work is T&M and attach a copy of your rate sheets for T&M work including whatever markup you plan to use on parts.
I really do not understand why people make this so hard. No one else can bid a fixed price when they don't know what work and equipment is actually required either.
If you have nothing to base the rest of the bid on, just say so in your bid and say anything outside of the specified work is T&M and attach a copy of your rate sheets for T&M work including whatever markup you plan to use on parts.
I really do not understand why people make this so hard. No one else can bid a fixed price when they don't know what work and equipment is actually required either.
Tiger Electrical
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Illinois
Aside from good terms and conditions it is most important IMO to quantify the project. So it may read something like:
1. Installation of 480V wiring to twelve client-supplied motors.
2. Installation of twelve fused disconnects.
etc.
This way it will be obvious when you are at extras, at least. But I agree with others. When it's vague quote high or go T&M.
1. Installation of 480V wiring to twelve client-supplied motors.
2. Installation of twelve fused disconnects.
etc.
This way it will be obvious when you are at extras, at least. But I agree with others. When it's vague quote high or go T&M.
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