Installations above a Drop Cieling

[safeT]

Non-electrical worker was installing communication line above a drop ceiling when he came into contact with some bare electrical wires left by an electrician.

Is it common for electricians to leave bare wires (no wire nuts) loose above a drop cieling?

I asked a few of my sources and they mentioned that they have experienced similar situations when working above drop cielings. Apparently drop ceilings can hold some pretty serious hazards.

I started digging around to find out what rules, laws, or practices should be followed in this situation.

This is what I found from OSHA.
1910.303 (g) (2) (i)
Must guard live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more against accidental contact by:
? Approved cabinets/enclosures, or
? Location or permanent partitions making them accessible only to qualified persons, or
? Elevation of 8 ft. or more above the floor or working surface

Does the above mentioned Elevation of 8ft give an electrician a free pass from proper Lockout Tagout for not protecting the wires above a drop cieling?

I am also curious if the NEC mentions anything specific regarding proper workmanship above drop cielings?

There is more to this situation: The electrician was working on this project earlier in the day with the breaker shut off. He left for the day. Another contractor was using a power tool and tripped a breaker in that panel. Not knowing which breaker was his, he turned them all on. A little while later, the incident occurs.

Any comments are appreciated.

 

[JDBrown]

Mr. Electrician should be in big trouble. Not only did he not lock-out-tag-out, causing a dangerous situation for anyone working in the area, it sounds like he's also making illegal splices. NEC 300.15 says, in part:

Where the wiring method is conduit, tubing, Type AC cable, Type MC cable, Type MI cable, nonmetallic-sheathed cable, or other cables, a box or conduit body shall be installed at each conductor splice point, outlet point, switch point, junction point, termination point, or pull point, unless otherwise permitted in 300.15(A) through (M).

Dropped ceilings are not one of the instances permitted by 300.15(A)-(M).

It's impossible to say for sure that your Electrician is committing a violation from where I'm sitting, but it certainly sounds like it. On the other hand, it could be that he just hasn't finished what he's doing and some wires were left exposed while he was on break. But he still should LOTO -- for his own safety if nothing else.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Non-electrical worker was installing communication line above a drop ceiling when he came into contact with some bare electrical wires left by an electrician.

Is it common for electricians to leave bare wires (no wire nuts) loose above a drop cieling?

I asked a few of my sources and they mentioned that they have experienced similar situations when working above drop cielings. Apparently drop ceilings can hold some pretty serious hazards.


Any comments are appreciated.

it's not uncommon for a cover to be left open on a junction box, but
no how no way should conductors be left uncapped anywhere in a wiring system.
that includes ground wires or neutrals in a J box. ever see a loose wire sneak
under a wire nut, and trip out a breaker?

i use wago wire nuts for this reason. they don't come off a wire except by cutting
the wire. no oopsies.

 

[augie47]

Perhaps it's a regional thing, but, unfortunately, in this area I would estimate that there are Code violations above 80% of the drop ceilings. Not as hazardous as the one your folks encountered.
Also, unfortunately, less than 10% of the electricians follow proper LOTO other than those employed in industry or institutional facilities that have a program.

 

[kwired]

There is no code violation having exposed conductor ends in such a space, if they are not capable of being easily energized.

People do make mistakes, which could be a contributing factor to this happening. This happens in more than just suspended ceiling spaces.

Many people do like the practice of insulating or at least covering those free ends somehow, like placing them in a junction box with a cover installed, even if there is very little risk of them being energized.

 

[Strathead]

In my observations there have been several different contributing factors to situations such as you describe. One very common one is work done by others. It is not uncommon for a demo crew to come in and turn off the lights and demo the fixtures, leaving the wires hanging. Most of the time, this is still the electrician's responsibility to go behind and remove abandoned wiring. It is not too difficult to miss a whip though. Code violations above a drop ceiling don't even come close to what I see every time I get roped in to doing electrical work on an existing residence though. With some of the stuff I have seen, I am hesitant to plug a light in!

 

[electricguy61]

A few years ago, I was working on an 8' ladder above a drop ceiling. EMT running all over the place. I reached into a junction box, and someone had left a 277v wire in the jbox with the end stripped. I touched it in the web between my middle and third finger. The EMT behind me locked my elbow into place, and my left hand was on the EMT feeding the box.

I fried for @ 10 seconds. Fortunately, I had given my brand new apprentice (1 week) safety training. He heard the funny noises I was making and knocked the ladder out from under me. My shoulder hit the concrete first, which ripped my bicep tendon from my shoulder (six week recovery from the surgery, and I couldn't throw anything worth a flip for about a year). I also got a third degree burn on my hand. In the ER, my heart had a real funny rhythm. But miraculously, I survived.

All because some jerk left a wirenut off.

What did I learn?

1) Always wear leather gloves when working in a drop ceiling.

2) Always assume a jbox is dangerous

3) Always give your employees safety training before they are ever allowed in the field.

4) It's very hard to wipe your butt with your left hand (when you're right handed) :happysad:

 

[kwired]

In my observations there have been several different contributing factors to situations such as you describe. One very common one is work done by others. It is not uncommon for a demo crew to come in and turn off the lights and demo the fixtures, leaving the wires hanging. Most of the time, this is still the electrician's responsibility to go behind and remove abandoned wiring. It is not too difficult to miss a whip though. Code violations above a drop ceiling don't even come close to what I see every time I get roped in to doing electrical work on an existing residence though. With some of the stuff I have seen, I am hesitant to plug a light in!

At least in the dwelling it shouldn't be 277 volts to ground, like electricguy61's story.

 

[wtucker]

This is what I found from OSHA.
1910.303 (g) (2) (i)
Must guard live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more against accidental contact by...
? Elevation of 8 ft. or more above the floor or working surface

Does the above mentioned Elevation of 8ft give an electrician a free pass from proper Lockout Tagout for not protecting the wires above a drop cieling?

It does until a worker is on a "working surface" like the ladder or scaffold that's within 8 ft. of the conductor! Consider this: primaries are not insulated (they have a weather cover, not insulation). Distance is what makes them safe. The principle's the same. Distance = protection.

An electrician friend of mine strung temp lights from a ceiling 15 ft. high, spliced with wire nuts. Three weeks later, a mason came in and put up a scaffold to build a wall. Mysteriously, the wire nuts got knocked off the morning OSHA showed up on a complaint. The electrician was cited, even though he wasn't on site. Personally, I would have contested the citation and demanded that they prove it was me who created the hazard.

 

[GoldDigger]

Mysteriously, the wire nuts got knocked off the morning OSHA showed up on a complaint. The electrician was cited, even though he wasn't on site. Personally, I would have contested the citation and demanded that they prove it was me who created the hazard.

And as the inspector, I would then have questioned whether the wire nuts alone with no protection were sufficient, based entirely on the results.

(Junctions or splices in a box. For a temporary cord at least tape around the splice....)

Now if the mason took the wire nuts off so that he could attach a tool with clip leads....

 

[wtucker]

Knowing the electrician, the wire nuts were taped in place and there was a taped strain relief ahead of the connection. He suspected that the mason's guys removed the nuts (and did other things) to generate a fine against their boss (who was also fined).