Cuttler-Hammer panel

[ceb58]

Starting a new construction house and on Saturday my guys set the C-H 400 amp meter/combo with 8/16 space buss built in. I go on Monday to install the service wire and notice something wrong in the load side of the cabinet. The bar with the neutral lugs and the ground bar are not there. Never installed from the factory. Call supplier, send photos C-H rep. wants a date code that will tell them where, when and who inspected the panel and let it get by. Today supplier said parts have shipped.
Here is my bone of contention with the ordeal. There I am with my customers, looking on at their soon to be $300,000.00 home and I have to tell them they left out some parts. Now I could have taken the panel down and returned it but I would still have to wait to get a new one in. But doing that it would cost me more money taking it down, returning it, picking up the new one and installing it. I told my supplier that I felt that Cuttler- Hammer owed me some type of consideration for now having to correct their mistakes. Don't know if it will happen but it made me feel better to unload on them. What would you have done?

 

[ptonsparky]

Stuff happens. They are sending parts thats all that needs to be done. The local sales guy may hear about it for years though.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I hate to say it but why did your guys install it?

Had they told you prior to you discovering it that would be different. Correct?

 

[templdl]

Starting a new construction house and on Saturday my guys set the C-H 400 amp meter/combo with 8/16 space buss built in. I go on Monday to install the service wire and notice something wrong in the load side of the cabinet. The bar with the neutral lugs and the ground bar are not there. Never installed from the factory. Call supplier, send photos C-H rep. wants a date code that will tell them where, when and who inspected the panel and let it get by. Today supplier said parts have shipped.
Here is my bone of contention with the ordeal. There I am with my customers, looking on at their soon to be $300,000.00 home and I have to tell them they left out some parts. Now I could have taken the panel down and returned it but I would still have to wait to get a new one in. But doing that it would cost me more money taking it down, returning it, picking up the new one and installing it. I told my supplier that I felt that Cuttler- Hammer owed me some type of consideration for now having to correct their mistakes. Don't know if it will happen but it made me feel better to unload on them. What would you have done?

I would tell C-H to get their sorry ass warranty service out there and fix or back charge them for for your labor in dealing with their incompetence. As you can tell I would not be a happy camper if C-H started to give my the run around. Start going up the ladder and ask to talk to someone who does have the authority. I have been a proponent for C-H since the mid 90's but have no problem using the SqD product.
You have to be persistent and be very direct. Call the C-H support center directly and I'm assuming that you are not dealing with a distributor.
I was an application and sales engineer for one of the largest electrical distribution protection and control manufactures in the industry and I made sure that I stood behind my products if we screwed up. I had the credibility within my company to make things happen by knowing the key people that I needed to call.
Just make sure that you are not mistaken in your observation of what of what you have determine is mising. You certainly don't want egg on your face.

 

[ceb58]

Stuff happens. They are sending parts thats all that needs to be done. The local sales guy may hear about it for years though.

Buy a car and they forget to install the mirrors. Hey, were sending the parts. That's all we need to do. It's not the local supplier fault. He ordered it in. I picked it up in a nice new unopened box.

I hate to say it but why did your guys install it?

Had they told you prior to you discovering it that would be different. Correct?

Yes, it would have been different but to be honest about it I stood there feeding service wire through the back and it wasn't until I went to start striping the sheath on the SER cable that I even noticed it. One of those done it so much things I just didn't pay attention to it. Then it was a "I'll be damned" moment.

I would tell C-H to get their sorry ass warranty service out there and fix or back charge them for for your labor in dealing with their incompetence. As you can tell I would not be a happy camper if C-H started to give my the run around. Start going up the ladder and ask to talk to someone who does have the authority. I have been a proponent for C-H since the mid 90's but have no problem using the SqD product.
You have to be persistent and be very direct. Call the C-H support center directly and I'm assuming that you are not dealing with a distributor.
I was an application and sales engineer for one of the largest electrical distribution protection and control manufactures in the industry and I made sure that I stood behind my products if we screwed up. I had the credibility within my company to make things happen by knowing the key people that I needed to call.
Just make sure that you are not mistaken in your observation of what of what you have determine is mising. You certainly don't want egg on your face.

Not mistaken, they have the photos to show what's missing. I'm not asking for the world. C-H could credit my supplier a couple hundred dollars so he could pass that on to me in the cost of the panel.

 

[kwired]

I would tell C-H to get their sorry ass warranty service out there and fix or back charge them for for your labor in dealing with their incompetence. As you can tell I would not be a happy camper if C-H started to give my the run around. Start going up the ladder and ask to talk to someone who does have the authority. I have been a proponent for C-H since the mid 90's but have no problem using the SqD product.
You have to be persistent and be very direct. Call the C-H support center directly and I'm assuming that you are not dealing with a distributor.
I was an application and sales engineer for one of the largest electrical distribution protection and control manufactures in the industry and I made sure that I stood behind my products if we screwed up. I had the credibility within my company to make things happen by knowing the key people that I needed to call.
Just make sure that you are not mistaken in your observation of what of what you have determine is mising. You certainly don't want egg on your face.

Like Tom said "stuff happens".

I have been working on replacing service and adding additional circuits in a school this summer. The goal was to be done with service before school started, but that did not happen because Square D dropped the ball on a main lug kit for the I line service panel. (main lug panel and up to six mains in this install)

Luckily I was able to temporarily back feed a 400 amp breaker that is a spare for now, but at same time was not able to transfer all the load either. Have had to work after school or on weekends to do some of the work that I hoped would have been done before school started.

I could have got on the phone with Square D and chewed some rear, but don't think it would have helped matters very much. Was already too far into the game to threaten to purchase something else, bottom line was I really needed the main lug kit for the panel that was already mostly installed, or eat the cost of what I already have if I went with something else, and even then my main lug kit probably arrives before a Cutler Hammer panel arrives. My supplier would have pulled something from stock even from another store, except they did not have any in stock. They did pull other "lost in shipping" parts from other stores when it came time those parts were needed bad enough.

If the OP has a good supply house and they have other panels (either same thing or at least something with same missing assembly) they possibly rob necessary parts from stocked items and take care of issues with CH on their own.

If this came from big box store, who knows why parts were missing, may very well have been an item that somebody robbed parts from then returned the item.

 

[PetrosA]

I can totally relate. I connected a $13,000 Wolf dual fuel range today. The light in one of the two ovens kept coming on, and I finally realized the door wasn't shutting. Turns out the latch for the door was installed poorly and is banging against the enameled panel inside the door. Enamel is chipped off, door sometimes shuts, sometimes doesn't. I called Wolf (I'm not the supplier of the range, but I try to be helpful to my customers) and they basically blew it off by shunting my customer to some local warranty repair service who my customer now has to make arrangements with to come out and repair the door latch and enameled plate. 13 grand, and "get it fixed yourself."

Okaaaaaaaaay. :jawdrop:

 

[templdl]

Like Tom said "stuff happens".

I have been working on replacing service and adding additional circuits in a school this summer. The goal was to be done with service before school started, but that did not happen because Square D dropped the ball on a main lug kit for the I line service panel. (main lug panel and up to six mains in this install)

Luckily I was able to temporarily back feed a 400 amp breaker that is a spare for now, but at same time was not able to transfer all the load either. Have had to work after school or on weekends to do some of the work that I hoped would have been done before school started.

I could have got on the phone with Square D and chewed some rear, but don't think it would have helped matters very much. Was already too far into the game to threaten to purchase something else, bottom line was I really needed the main lug kit for the panel that was already mostly installed, or eat the cost of what I already have if I went with something else, and even then my main lug kit probably arrives before a Cutler Hammer panel arrives. My supplier would have pulled something from stock even from another store, except they did not have any in stock. They did pull other "lost in shipping" parts from other stores when it came time those parts were needed bad enough.

If the OP has a good supply house and they have other panels (either same thing or at least something with same missing assembly) they possibly rob necessary parts from stocked items and take care of issues with CH on their own.

If this came from big box store, who knows why parts were missing, may very well have been an item that somebody robbed parts from then returned the item.

Having a good supply house is a good start which requires people that have been around long enough. I have found the with manufactures it,s the same thing which is of no help for those on the field who are asking for he'll from those who doesn't have the slightest clue. I guess I was spoiled when I had the relationships that I had. I really can remember in my 18 years not being able to make things happen. I get extremely frustrated when I hear the stories from the field that I have been hearing and have my hands tied because I am in no position anymore to make things happen. It had been my goal to assure that those who installed my products were confident that they know that they will get support for the product. That is not to say that it was that way though out the company because I know that it wasn't which I didn't have any control over. But when it came across my desk I took it seriously because I knew that it could just as easily been me who was out in the field faced with a problem.

 

[templdl]

I can totally relate. I connected a $13,000 Wolf dual fuel range today. The light in one of the two ovens kept coming on, and I finally realized the door wasn't shutting. Turns out the latch for the door was installed poorly and is banging against the enameled panel inside the door. Enamel is chipped off, door sometimes shuts, sometimes doesn't. I called Wolf (I'm not the supplier of the range, but I try to be helpful to my customers) and they basically blew it off by shunting my customer to some local warranty repair service who my customer now has to make arrangements with to come out and repair the door latch and enameled plate. 13 grand, and "get it fixed yourself."

Okaaaaaaaaay. :jawdrop:

Sometime you reach a dead end with customer service/ warranty people. With a product as high quality as a Wolf I would certainly start going up the ladder to find out if this was their company policy and if it was their intent to portray the quality of their product. It would be most interesting that should risk their reputation on their lack of product support.

 

[cadpoint]

I had the same problem with a 600 Amp panel C-H. The panel was hung and the same missing parts were
noted a few days later when the wire arrivied. I can certainly feel your pain and embarrassment.

Another crew came in for that day, I should start my own thread / OP on "I'm finished"...

 

[weressl]

Starting a new construction house and on Saturday my guys set the C-H 400 amp meter/combo with 8/16 space buss built in. I go on Monday to install the service wire and notice something wrong in the load side of the cabinet. The bar with the neutral lugs and the ground bar are not there. Never installed from the factory. Call supplier, send photos C-H rep. wants a date code that will tell them where, when and who inspected the panel and let it get by. Today supplier said parts have shipped.
Here is my bone of contention with the ordeal. There I am with my customers, looking on at their soon to be $300,000.00 home and I have to tell them they left out some parts. Now I could have taken the panel down and returned it but I would still have to wait to get a new one in. But doing that it would cost me more money taking it down, returning it, picking up the new one and installing it. I told my supplier that I felt that Cuttler- Hammer owed me some type of consideration for now having to correct their mistakes. Don't know if it will happen but it made me feel better to unload on them. What would you have done?

Panels are often custom assembled from components, baased on order entry. You CAN see separate parts listing for the main bus guts, main lugs, or main CB addition, list of breakers, isolated neutral bar, unisolated grounding bar, ground-to-neutral bonding strap, all listed separately.

In other words, it is indeed possible to 'order' a panel w/o either of the above options.

 

[templdl]

Panels are often custom assembled from components, baased on order entry. You CAN see separate parts listing for the main bus guts, main lugs, or main CB addition, list of breakers, isolated neutral bar, unisolated grounding bar, ground-to-neutral bonding strap, all listed separately.

In other words, it is indeed possible to 'order' a panel w/o either of the above options.

Yes, even if you do specify it correctly there are important items that can be dropped in the order entry process by the distributor are then manufactured. Often times the distributor is provided the software where they can enter the order directly on the manufacturing facility which is supposed to reduce lead time.

Incidentally, what are you doing up so late? I?m processing some MP3 music myself and screwed up a series of songs which ended up out of order and mislabeled.

 

[kwired]

I can totally relate. I connected a $13,000 Wolf dual fuel range today. The light in one of the two ovens kept coming on, and I finally realized the door wasn't shutting. Turns out the latch for the door was installed poorly and is banging against the enameled panel inside the door. Enamel is chipped off, door sometimes shuts, sometimes doesn't. I called Wolf (I'm not the supplier of the range, but I try to be helpful to my customers) and they basically blew it off by shunting my customer to some local warranty repair service who my customer now has to make arrangements with to come out and repair the door latch and enameled plate. 13 grand, and "get it fixed yourself."

Okaaaaaaaaay. :jawdrop:

I have had same issue with so called lesser quality appliances. You maybe contact manufacturer about a warranty issue, but all that does is give authorization to the third party service company to bill the manufacturer for the repair, you still have to schedule things with the third party to get the repair done.

Panels are often custom assembled from components, baased on order entry. You CAN see separate parts listing for the main bus guts, main lugs, or main CB addition, list of breakers, isolated neutral bar, unisolated grounding bar, ground-to-neutral bonding strap, all listed separately.

In other words, it is indeed possible to 'order' a panel w/o either of the above options.

My guess is the panel in the OP is a standard part number (usually in the so called "load center" category) and any options for it are separately purchased and field installed.