Satellite cabling

[hbiss]

The dish installer is usually doing a "free" install.That means for most companies get the job done and working. Neatness is not a priority... The amount paid does not include any wall fishes or anything like that. Drill straight out the wall and run the cable outside along house is what the dish company is paying for.If the customer wants to pay $$$ then he can hire me on an hourly basis just like any other trade.The customer however has "free" install on his mind so he gets what he pays for.

The problem I have with that is that the customer isn't given any other choice. Is there a "premium" install available where the customer gets a better installation and pays for it? Free or not, I think the customer has a reasonable expectation that the work will be done in a neat and workman-like manner. I also don't think that the customer thinks it's exactly free since they are paying a monthly charge for service and possibly signing a contract binding them for a certain term. So the install cost is included in the payments.

I also get where you are coming from. The company pays you per install and pays so little that you have to "hit and run" because the only way you are going to make money is by doing as many installs a day as you can.

I also don't understand what you mean by "Im independent so the Quality of Service guy is not following my a** trying to fail my install and take away my pay." I always understood that the job of the QC guy was to inspect subcontractors work and gig him if it was not done to company specs. If you work in house they can't dock your pay for poor work.

-Hal

 

[jacobsond]

If the customer wants a better quality install He dosent call direct or dish at their 800# they look in the book or on line and find a local retailer that does dish installs along with antennas and various other video and audio service.We can look at the job and quote cost above and beyond what a normal "free" install would be.As far as QAS they go strictly by dish rules and will pass an ugly install as long as the proper equipment is used and the system works.The dish employee has no incentive to do any work above and beyond a basic install or do anything that may fail dish QAS.Typically if the dish employee didnt run the cable he wont risk failing QAS and use the cable someone else has installed.Now the existing cable may be good and run inside the walls and look neat but the dish guy will run new externally to be on the safe side.I on the other hand can use the existing cable if I determine its ok (alot of dish guys dont have a clue) and I will try to do a better job and have a more reliable system that looks better. Alot of dish/direct employees dont get good training and dont have a clue.Slap it up and move on to the next job.They are rated on how many jobs not on if the job looks good only if it works and you have used dish approved equipment your good to go.QAS has only talked to me 2 times in the last 5yrs.Both times when I went and inspected my job I called myself a dumb***. Now would my jobs conform to the strict dish rules no.Do my systems have problems no again.I try to follow the NEC rules before some of the odd dish rules . If your house is wired with cable only swept to 2.2ghz I will use it because it will work. I wont abandon it and run new cable externally because QAS will fail a working install because of it.

 

[joegatzek]

bonding querstion for shared Satellite dish on apartment buildings roofs.

bonding querstion for shared Satellite dish on apartment buildings roofs.

Got a question for you guys.

How do you properly bond a satellite dish to the equipment bonding conductor when there is no acceptable way to reach one from the roof, this is for two and three story apartment buildings that use only one dish per building where running a new bonding conductor exceeds the allowable distance and in some ways impossible. In some cases there is no Intersystem Bonding available in older buildings.

If there is a metal conduit on the roof is it ok to use it for grounding, since metal counduit and raceways must be physically connected to the disconnect box with a solid continuous metallic non current carrying metallic means or is it too risky to depend on the electrician using a non metallic pipe during the run. The ground wire from the ground block used on the roof is #10 and if the disconnect uses a smaller wire, that is an imroper wiring method. I have been searching the NEC 2011 book and couldn't find my answer.

I would love the NEC code reference and any other source to make a copy of the rules for reference purposes.

Thanks.

 

[hbiss]

How do you properly bond a satellite dish to the equipment bonding conductor when there is no acceptable way to reach one from the roof, this is for two and three story apartment buildings that use only one dish per building where running a new bonding conductor exceeds the allowable distance and in some ways impossible. In some cases there is no Intersystem Bonding available in older buildings.

The correct answer is to install something like #2 copper down the side of the building to the service location. Drive two ground rods and bond them to the service ground. Upgrade the service if necessary.

The real answer is nobody is going to do that unless you are a cell company.

-Hal

 

[joegatzek]

reply

reply

The building is stuck between two other buildings with concrete in the front and asfaut in back.
I'm just the Directv installer concerned about the correct, safe bonding to ground.
They do have Electricians installing wiring, but the one I took on the roof to see had no answer for me.

Normally I can hook to the supplied grounding conductor in the telecommunications closet.
There are few very old building that need dishes installed that have this problem.

It was funny, I stumped an Electrical Inspector with this question and
he is looking up the solution. Civil war buildings are tricky.

 

[kwired]

Got a question for you guys.

How do you properly bond a satellite dish to the equipment bonding conductor when there is no acceptable way to reach one from the roof, this is for two and three story apartment buildings that use only one dish per building where running a new bonding conductor exceeds the allowable distance and in some ways impossible. In some cases there is no Intersystem Bonding available in older buildings.

If there is a metal conduit on the roof is it ok to use it for grounding, since metal counduit and raceways must be physically connected to the disconnect box with a solid continuous metallic non current carrying metallic means or is it too risky to depend on the electrician using a non metallic pipe during the run. The ground wire from the ground block used on the roof is #10 and if the disconnect uses a smaller wire, that is an imroper wiring method. I have been searching the NEC 2011 book and couldn't find my answer.

I would love the NEC code reference and any other source to make a copy of the rules for reference purposes.

Thanks.

I believe 810.21 is where you need to look.

810.1 contains this statement "This article covers antennas such as wire-strung type, multi-element, vertical rod, and dish and also covers the wiring and cabling that connects them to equipment." So I believe it applies to satellite dish installations. I found nothing in there limiting the length of the bonding conductor though.

 

[hbiss]

It was funny, I stumped an Electrical Inspector with this question and
he is looking up the solution.

Don't know why he was stumped or led you to believe there is some easy solution, the answer is clear. He can choose to ignore the code or he can enforce it. Art 810.21 is correctly quoted. Since it seems that this building is having work done anyway I would require a grounding conductor to the roof and whatever service upgrades are necessary for it.

 

[joegatzek]

Satellite Installations

Satellite Installations

Would like to comment on a few of the posts on here about the way Satellite Dishes are installed.
I do admit that there are alot of sloppy installations done for what ever reason, but according to the SBCA and the training that I got with DirecTV is that NEC code does apply not only to bonding, but to the overall neatness and good quality workmanship. They even included in their training rules for the mounting of the dish, hardware, and unacceptible surfaces to mount to. One of the main reasons for poor work is that some companies allow the new hires to work on their own before taking the certification test, most are trained by another technician who might do substandard work. Of course, there are many lazy and sloppy Techs that don't care out there. The other main reason is most technicians are required to do at least 4 installs a day and often there are long commute between jobs. There are no acceptible reasons for shoddy workmanship. On thing that some techs don't realize is that DirecTV and Excede Internet do inspect jobs randomly and if a tech has to correct the problems with the installation, they can back charge the original Tech. I know of a Technician that has lost his certification for failing too many QC's.

As an Installer and seller of DirecTV, it upsets me when people do poor work due to being lazy. Not only does it make selling harder, but most importantly the customer will have a bad experience with the look and have problems with signal reception.

That's my two cents.

 

[hbiss]

... but according to the SBCA and the training that I got with DirecTV is that NEC code does apply not only to bonding, but to the overall neatness and good quality workmanship.

Well, there is nothing that addresses neatness in the NEC other than to say that all work (not just satellite installs) should be done in a neat and workmanlike manner. See Art 110.12. The interpretation of "neat and workmanlike" is up to the AHJ and unfortunately not too many jurisdictions require a permit and inspection of a sat installation. So pretty much anything goes leaving workmanship up to the personal pride of the installer.

-Hal

 

[Jerry the Phone Guy]

What type and brand of RG-6 is recommended for residential work?

What type and brand of RG-6 is recommended for residential work?

I'd like to know what type of RG-6 is best for residential cable and satellite TV? Quad-shielded, double-shielded, 60% braid, solid-copper center conductor? And please specify actual part numbers. (Since reading this thread, I realize that nothing will make the cable co. happy with the install, so, let's ignore that issue for the sake of argument.)

 

[egnlsn]

A dual-shield cable such as TimesFiber's T10 Series 6 (copper-clad steel) or CommScope's 2275 (copper-clad steel) or Belden's 1694A (solid copper core) would be perfect. The only time quad is recommended (unless you're a salesman) is if you are fairly close to transmitting towers or are in a large, metropolitan area.

DirecTV would tell you that it needs to be solid copper, but the only time that would be so is if the distance from the their power supply to the dish is >~140'.

 

[kwired]

DirecTV would tell you that it needs to be solid copper, but the only time that would be so is if the distance from the their power supply to the dish is >~140'.

They will say that because most of their installers are likely not capable of determining when something lesser is acceptable. KISS (keep it simple stupid) makes for less error by the installers.

 

[egnlsn]

They will say that because most of their installers are likely not capable of determining when something lesser is acceptable. KISS (keep it simple stupid) makes for less error by the installers.

+1