I am the process of finishing this job in which the HO keeps adding receptacles. 41 to be exact. After the fact I'm trying to out what each receptacle cost. I use the figure 150 per receptacle. I know it should be simple, how much material , how much labor. Any body have a differ way?
Cost of extra receptacles
- Thread starter guschash
- Start date
- Status
mjf
Senior Member
Need more info... By "finishing this job" do you mean you've already had rough-in inspection, framing is no longer exposed and you are trimming the job out?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
It is simple. How much did it cost you? How much additional labor did it take? What is your usual profit on such installation?
Add those together and there is your answer. If you want to hammer them or give them a break that is totally up to you but it is part of the "profit" part of the equation.
It isn't cut and dried. As a home buyer, it always annoyed me that builders wanted $50/receptacle for additional ones. What I wanted was additions to existing circuits, not new dedicated ones. Should only require another box, receptacle, a few extra feet of wire, and the time to terminate it (wanted outlets spaced at 8' instead of the normal 12'). This was 15 years ago, so I'm sure the cost is higher now.
If these are all dedicated receptacles, so you have a home run, breaker, etc, then it will certainly cost much more than an extra outlet on an existing circuit. If you run out of panel space, that is even worse. If an AFCI breaker is required, that's something else to consider.
If these are all dedicated receptacles, so you have a home run, breaker, etc, then it will certainly cost much more than an extra outlet on an existing circuit. If you run out of panel space, that is even worse. If an AFCI breaker is required, that's something else to consider.
JDBrown
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
I don't recommend the method used by an Electrician we worked with a couple of years ago. It was a mid-sized commercial job, so that makes it quite a bit different from your situation, but this guy's change orders were literally 10 grand for an additional receptacle. I'm pretty sure he waaaay under-bid in order to get the job and was trying to make up his losses on the change orders, but he took it too far and made it too obvious.
Needless to say, the customer said, "Never mind; I don't need that extra receptacle that badly," and then hired somebody else to put it in after getting the final. Oh, and they blacklisted the original EC; won't ever work with him again.
That being said, you still deserve just compensation for your extra work. Human beings are notorious for getting a number fixed in our head and not wanting to deviate from that number, so I could easily see the homeowner saying, "But you quoted me $XXX for the job, why are you trying to jack up the price now?" That's when you need to gently remind him that the original price was for the original scope of work, and that more labor and materials equals an increase in price. The "gently" part is, I believe, an art form in and of itself, and those who are good at it tend to get more repeat customers.
The good thing about using a simple formula like "Material + Labor + Profit = Price" is that you can show it to your customer so he will understand why? it costs what it does. If he's a reasonable person, he should accept it and move on.
Needless to say, the customer said, "Never mind; I don't need that extra receptacle that badly," and then hired somebody else to put it in after getting the final. Oh, and they blacklisted the original EC; won't ever work with him again.
That being said, you still deserve just compensation for your extra work. Human beings are notorious for getting a number fixed in our head and not wanting to deviate from that number, so I could easily see the homeowner saying, "But you quoted me $XXX for the job, why are you trying to jack up the price now?" That's when you need to gently remind him that the original price was for the original scope of work, and that more labor and materials equals an increase in price. The "gently" part is, I believe, an art form in and of itself, and those who are good at it tend to get more repeat customers.
The good thing about using a simple formula like "Material + Labor + Profit = Price" is that you can show it to your customer so he will understand why? it costs what it does. If he's a reasonable person, he should accept it and move on.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
one might think that an EC that has done a few of these jobs would know what it costs to add an extra receptacle or similar type of thing and just provide a price list to the customer up front for typical adders.
what people hate is the surprise. if they know the cost going in they deal with it a lot better.
what people hate is the surprise. if they know the cost going in they deal with it a lot better.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
I agree with Mark. I don't know what you charge an outlet, but my guess is it's not $150. So if you're just adding them to existing circuits I don't understand the jump in price, unless you keep having to come back and add them one at a time, then a service call price would be justified.
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
What was wrong with $50 a receptacle? A dedicated circuit could be 4X that, depending on how close to the panel it was and if there was open framing between the receptacle and panel and so on. $50 was very reasonable to add a plug back in 1999/2000.
It was actually older than that -- about 1992. But how much should they charge for $5 of materials and 15 minutes of time, especially if done when they are doing everything else. Certainly coming back and modifying after the fact would be much more expensive.
I think it really came down to change. Most of these guys were used to doing every house the same way. They tend to not check plans for changes or notes. When you push back because they failed to do the agreed to job, then it is much more costly to meet the agreed to requirements. So perhaps this is cushion in case the general contractor isn't on the electricians to make sure they know how house X is different from house Y.
I think it really came down to change. Most of these guys were used to doing every house the same way. They tend to not check plans for changes or notes. When you push back because they failed to do the agreed to job, then it is much more costly to meet the agreed to requirements. So perhaps this is cushion in case the general contractor isn't on the electricians to make sure they know how house X is different from house Y.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
I agree with Jay, $50 sounds like the normal pr opening price for a general use receptacle. Very reasonable.
Around here the electrician would have gotten an axtra $50 and the builder would have added his 100% mark-up for the extra paperwork.
If a customer wants all these extra receptacles that should be done during the planning stage and not during the building phase.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Don't forget that the GC will end up paying more to the drywall hangers for their extra time, even if they don't charge by the opening.
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
So #1, you said 15 years ago when you actually meant nearly 22 years ago. But even after that, extras always get billed for more. You're thinking in terms of materials and time, but the electrical contractor is thinking, "I was supposed to be done with this job yesterday but the customer has added things and now I have to go back (or send somebody back) for an extra day.
I went to finish a kitchen the other day and they had completely changed the kitchen layout so that instead of a fridge, they extended the countertops an extra 6 feet and moved the fridge to the other side of the kitchen.
It was three more hours to fish the wires along the wall (double cross-bracing between each stud, chimney, and way too much insulation in the walls) in order to bring the countertop area up to code.
I suppose you'd only want me to add $25 in materials and what else?
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Sounds like a case of change dis-order.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
New or old construction?
It depends on how you figure the job. If it is new construction we only figure about $50/ device assuming nm cable
It depends on how you figure the job. If it is new construction we only figure about $50/ device assuming nm cable
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Exactly why I don't bill or estimate by the opening. Some rooms cost more per opening than others, like the kitchen. If I were in your situation you described the changes would need some examination before giving a price not just throwing $50 per outlet at it. You could easily run into needing to spend most of the day making changes you described yet only actually made just a small number of new "outlets"
I'm saying this was the "upgrade" cost when picking materials, finishes, options, and mods in a new construction house before any work was started. This would not be after the fact, as least not if people look at the plans. I agree it should cost more if it is done as rework and not as initial install. Those types of changes can be very costly... So yes, 22 years ago they were charging $50/outlet and they made no distinction between a separate new circuit or a circuit extension. Would think it would be at least $100 to $150 today, but I haven't priced new house options in a long long time. The $50 sounds reasonable to me today if this is a new build circuit extension.
JDBrown
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
When you're dealing with building a tract home from a standard floor plan, I think this is pretty typical. It's very different from hiring an electrician yourself and working out pricing with him.
What I've noticed from the homebuilders in my area is that they don't even allow you this much flexibility. They have their list of standard "upgrades" that you can choose from, but you can't really deviate from that list.
Standard countertops are formica (or whatever's cheap these days). Want granite like you saw in the model home? That costs (a lot) extra. Same thing if you want flooring that will last longer than it takes you to move in.
Same thing if you want the electrical to be anything beyond "Code minimum". Often the base electrical package includes no ceiling outlets in the living room or bedrooms -- switched receptacles for lamps only. Also, no power for an automatic garage door opener. If you want these things, you have to purchase the "premium" electrical package, which includes ceiling fans, garage door power, receptacles under the eaves for Christmas lights, separate circuit for the refrigerator, etc. And you don't get to pick and choose which parts of the electrical upgrade you want -- it's all or nothing.
Want something extra that's not part of the "premium" electrical upgrade (say, receptacles every 8' instead of every 12')? Sorry, can't do that.
It's irritating, but that's the way the system works (around here, at least). I would never buy a regular tract home if I could afford to design and build a custom home instead; unfortunately, I can't. Although prices were low enough when I lived in Iowa that it might be a different story if I ever decided to move back (not likely, as I hate the snow).
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
I can see their point. That way the trades doing the construction do not even need to look at a set of plans before they start. It is one cookie cutter or the other.
JDBrown
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
Exactly. If you're buying a tract home, that's just the way it works--helps keep construction times and costs down because they can blow through it in assembly line fashion. If you want a custom home, you have to buy a custom home. And from what I see, the guys building the tract homes are NOT the same guys building the custom homes.I can see their point. That way the trades doing the construction do not even need to look at a set of plans before they start. It is one cookie cutter or the other.
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
Well then what business do you have trying to voice an opinion on prices today?
Even then. Somebody offers what you want for a certain price. Were there other people out there offering what you want for a lot less? If not, then yes, the price is justified.
- Status