Hazard assessment form?

[hbiss]

Has anybody ever heard of this? I read this over at a LV forum:

It is becoming a liability nightmare for anyone doing even the smallest work in these buildings. The insurance companies are out of control. This is how ridiculous it has become:

If you are working in a building, let us say running a cable for a new station, and you notice that all the other wiring is non plenum wiring, you MUST make a hazard and risk assessment, hand it to the person for whom you are doing the work AND the building owner and then explain to them the risk and hazards.

Who has time for this? In Pittsburgh, try and find a "building owner." This has all come about because of liability issues arising from accidents and fires that are being traced back to faulty or poor wiring. This used to be a situation that electricians had to deal with, now it has spread to ANYONE installing cable or making changes to the wiring plant in a building.

I was talking to a HVAC contractor, recently, who was taken to court by an insurance company because he moved a low voltage thermostat cable, using the exact same wire that was in the building for 40 years, to another wall. A fire started in the wall due to a faulty electrical outlet. There was serious complications from the poisonous smoke released from telephone, cable TV and other, non plenum wiring located in the [ceiling]. No one else was cited. Because he was the last contractor working in that building and he did not inform the building owner of the lack of plenum wiring, the insurance company was suing him. Fortunately, the judge had, at least, one functioning brain cell and threw the case out. But, soon, I fear, this will become the normal and everyone that does work in a building will be a target of these rotten insurance companies.

If you have not encountered this, be prepared, you will. When you lift a ceiling tile and see a rats nest of old LAN and telephone wiring, all PVC and all not properly supported, and you are the "last" person to do work, the insurance companies are going to go after you for not making the building owner and any other "responsible" entity, as prescribed by local codes, aware of the hazard if there is a claim due to fire, smoke or ANY condition deemed hazardous.

I think I know the Code fairly well but I'm not an inspector and I understand that you will be held to your findings. No way would I put my name on that.

-Hal

 

[petersonra]

It seems to me that if there is a requirement to notify someone about an unsafe condition that was observed while doing licensed work, the notification should be made. It is part of the job.

In any case, being sued is part of being in business and is why you have liability insurance.

 

[hbiss]

But I'm not an inspector. The AHJ and Fire Marshal have errors and omissions insurance and in some cases municipal authorities are immune to liability. I don't nor would I consider myself competent to detect every hazard that might exist. Anytime I brought a hazardous situation to the attention of a building owner I was told to mind my own business- so that's how much they care about those kinds of problems. Now they are making it MY problem. If I miss something material and something happens they go after me.

Also keep in mind that LV is often not licensed (as with the HVAC guy above) so even if the work is done by IT "professionals" they have to provide a report and I would guarantee you that they barely know how to run cable if they even know what the Code is.

-Hal

 

[sparky8786]

It seems like very poor customer service to not inform the owner of potential problems and safety issues. Electricians keep trying to "help" the customer save money by not bringing up potential hazards when they are seen. We end up assuming liability for shoddy jobs that were completed by unqualified installers, and never worked right in the first place.

 

[hbiss]

It seems like very poor customer service to not inform the owner of potential problems and safety issues.

I know I always do when I think they will listen. But being required to do an inspection, having to put the findings in writing and then being held responsible for what I miss is not something I want to participate in. If the building burns down, as long as it's not because of my work it's their problem, not mine.

-Hal

 

[cowboyjwc]

Odds are that they'll go after the last person who worked on the building. Doesn't matter if the work you did caused the fire or not. "Sir, did you see a hazard while you were doing your work?" "Did you do anything to correct the hazard or notify the owners?" "No, but..." "Thank you sir, that will be all."

 

[GoldDigger]

Odds are that they'll go after the last person who worked on the building. Doesn't matter if the work you did caused the fire or not. "Sir, did you see a hazard while you were doing your work?" "Did you do anything to correct the hazard or notify the owners?" "No, but..." "Thank you sir, that will be all."

In which case, the safest thing to do might be to put your blinders firmly in place before stepping on site and be diligent to observe nothing. If it was not in your area of responsibility, it will be hard for them to fault you for not observing. Although that will not stop them from trying. :happysad:

 

[hbiss]

With that I agree. They're going to try and pin it on somebody in which case the less you know the better. Filling out a report just paints a big bulls eye on you.

-Hal

 

[MichaelKelley]

It is a good thing to inform the building owner about any of the issues they may face because of any work done by someone, but sometime it become so irritating that we cannot afford to do this.

 

[Besoeker]

I know I work in a different environment and in a different country to most here.

Pretty much all of the sites won't let you past the gate without a third party site safety passport.

The person in charge of the work requires written risk assessments and method statements before any work is undertaken.
Covers everything from manual handling, electrical testing to working at height.

It was a bit of a ball-ache to start with but, over time we, developed a series of standard RA forms that are user friendly.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Odds are that they'll go after the last person who worked on the building. Doesn't matter if the work you did caused the fire or not. "Sir, did you see a hazard while you were doing your work?" "Did you do anything to correct the hazard or notify the owners?" "No, but..." "Thank you sir, that will be all."

it's the result of a quiet and well funded lobbying effort by the insurance companies,
so they will have legal recourse to sue someone to try and recover losses when
they have a claim. nothing more. it's musical chairs, played with checkbooks.

but it's a case of the snake eating it's tail. all the insurance companies can now sue
each other and negotiate compensation, so now they ALL have to raise their rates,
not to be able to pay claims, as that is a level playing field. every insurance company
sues everyone for everything, so they make money on some, and pay money on others,
its a wash.

what the rates go up for is paying for the layer of attorneys who operate like low grade
functionaries. they are more mouths to feed.

my general liability premiums have gone up 60% in six years. i've never had a claim.
that is to fund my share of this madness.

please excuse me, i have to get back to work. i have attorneys to support.
can i claim these parasitic attorneys on my tax return as dependents?
i think i'm feeding at least one of them, and paying the BMW payment on another....