Service Entrance Conduit

[deckscrew]

I'm a GC in the SF Bay Area and we are building an addition to an existing house. We are also relocating the electrical service (its an overhead service) and upgrading it to 200 amp. Since the walls are open the owner's would like the conduit that will be run from the new panel to the roof to located in the framing (about 20'), rather than exposed on the side of the house. The electrician as well as the building inspector don't like this idea and would rather the conduit be run on the outside of the house. Its never really occured to me to do it one way or another. Is there a reason not to locate the conduit inside the framing? It would be a cleaner job.

Thanks

 

[GoldDigger]

I'm a GC in the SF Bay Area and we are building an addition to an existing house. We are also relocating the electrical service (its an overhead service) and upgrading it to 200 amp. Since the walls are open the owner's would like the conduit that will be run from the new panel to the roof to located in the framing (about 20'), rather than exposed on the side of the house. The electrician as well as the building inspector don't like this idea and would rather the conduit be run on the outside of the house. Its never really occured to me to do it one way or another. Is there a reason not to locate the conduit inside the framing? It would be a cleaner job.

Thanks

The Code requires that the service conductors reach the service disconnect either on the outside of the building or "as close as possible to the point of entry" after entering the building. That distance is subject to interpretation by the inspector and AHJ. But when the conduit is inside the wall, it is inside the building (unless you encase it in 2" or more of concrete) and the tape measure starts running.
I can see an argument that the main breaker/service disconnect is as close as you can get it once you assume that the conduit will be entering the building where it doesl, but that is not going to get any traction with most inspectors. As long as the option to run the service wires on the outside of the wall is available, and the distance is in the fuzzy zone left to each AHJ, you have to keep them outside for as much of their length as possible IMHO.

 

[Volta]

And in addition to what Gold mentioned, I have a feeling that the utility company will want an electrical meter installed, and they will want it on the outside of the house...

 

[GoldDigger]

And in addition to what Gold mentioned, I have a feeling that the utility company will want an electrical meter installed, and they will want it on the outside of the house...

That part could be taken care of by breaking it back out of the wall to connect to the outside meter.
My impression is that it is the large vertical run, down from the weatherhead of the overhead service connection to the point where it would enter the meter base and then go to either an inside or outside main, that is concerning the owner.

 

[deckscrew]

The meter and disconnect switch will be on the outside, in a panel set between the framing studs. The conduit would be run in the stud bay to the new mathead on the roof.

Thanks

 

[Volta]

Yeah, when OP said "from the new panel to the roof", I pictured our local normal panels, forgetting that many on the west coast are all-in-one units. I would never think to conceal the riser mast though, but as said earlier, "nearest the point of entry" is subject to interpretation.

 

[deckscrew]

The meter will be on the outside of the house. The owner's would like the the meter in a recessed panel and the conduit to the masthead run inside the walls rather than on the outside of the building. Anybody see a problem there?

Thanks

 

[GoldDigger]

The meter will be on the outside of the house. The owner's would like the the meter in a recessed panel and the conduit to the masthead run inside the walls rather than on the outside of the building. Anybody see a problem there?

Thanks

Yes, and most inspectors would too. The conduit in the stud cavity is considered to be "inside the house." What would be the total distance inside the wall?

 

[deckscrew]

About 15 feet. The meter is facing the exterior. Its just recessed in the stub bay and the conduit is also in the stud bay, through the top plates. I'm curious why an inspector would care?

 

[GoldDigger]

About 15 feet. The meter is facing the exterior. Its just recessed in the stub bay and the conduit is also in the stud bay, through the top plates. I'm curious why an inspector would care?

Because the service conductors, with no effective overcurrent protection against a fault in the wires themselves, are inside the house. That is a fire risk.
The NEC does not designate a specific allowed distance, so AHJs via policy or local regulation may allow as little as 6 feet or as much as 25 feet, and will not be very sympathetic if you could just as easily have run the conductors entirely outside the house.

If you put 2" of solid concrete around the conduit on the back and sides of the stud cavity, then the NEC would consider the wires to still be outside the house. But that would require a deeper than normal wall.

The only place I have seen described in this forum where running the service conductors out of sight from the top of a two story commercial building to the ground was OK was where the real concrete block wall (with filled in blocks) was actually behind the conduit and what was covering the conduit was both non-combustible and not the real structural wall.
Residential is likely to be just as strict or stricter.

If you want to know if you can do it, you will have to figure out a way to run it by your AHJ or inspector first.

 

[acrwc10]

Ask your building inspector to look at 75% of the services in the area, I have been in the Bay Area my whole life and almost every service is recessed into the wall "IF" you use rigid steel conduit (not to mention all the PVC risers for UG flush mount panels) and to those who are worried about "un-fused conductors" in the wall,,,,, doesn't your AHJ allow SER surface mounted on the wall "outside" and "un-fused" :jawdrop: how dangerous is that ???? Just saying. The reality is, I have seen broken service risers in RGS "surface mounted" but never "in the wall" (they bust at the hub). SER seems more vulnerable on the outside than RGS on the inside. I guess it is all about where you live and what you are used to seeing. check for a local ordinance, in writing.

Final word (or question) "what code section would you use to hang your hat on ?

 

[deckscrew]

Electrical Contractor, Power Company and I met yesterday. Power Company prefers flush panel with conduit run inside walls.

Thanks for all replies.

 

[growler]

Ask your building inspector to look at 75% of the services in the area, I have been in the Bay Area my whole life and almost every service is recessed into the wall .

A lot of our older services are recessed to but you can't do it now ( in most areas).


I think some areas will allowed service conductors inside the house if ran in rigid conduit. /But then most power companies will not allow the recessed meter base.


I either run underground or run a rigid riser and paint to match the house. Once painted it doesn't show up any more than a gutter down-spout.

 

[jumper]

Electrical Contractor, Power Company and I met yesterday. Power Company prefers flush panel with conduit run inside walls.

Thanks for all replies.

Common install for SF area. Actually meter and panel is also inside in many cases. Just the way they do it there.