Cost Estimating - PVC Schedule 80 Conduit

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MSMStannyl

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Location
Baltimore, MD
I'm hoping I can get some expert opinions/advice on this issue.

Background:
Our company designed a full streetscape for the main street of a Deleware town. It involved all new lighting as well as some additional work. That part has all been mostly completed. However, the town decided they wanted to run fiber optic cables from one end of the street to the other. We were tasked with designing the conduit run ONLY (the fiber will be installed by others later).

Issue:
We laid out the conduit run. Early on, we coordinated with the contractor that will be installing the conduit. It was decided that we would use 4" to ease the install of any additional fiber being installed later. I should also add that the majority of the conduit run will be underneath the roadway/parking areas. With this in mind and using DelDOT's latest standards, we are proposing 4" PVC Schedule 80 conduit.

The town asked for a cost estimate for the installation of this conduit. Since we are not "experts" at cost estimating, we do what I'm sure most designers do...we use the MEANS books (or MEANS online).

Long story short, for 4" PVC Schedule 80 conduit, MEANS says that the cost totals out to $23.85/LF installed ($29.70/LF incl O&P). Based on the description, this includes the installation but does not include trenching, backfilling, etc.

Well, the town came back and said this price was ridiculously high. That they had another proposal (for some other project) where 4" Schedule 80 conduit was priced at $0.75 per linear foot!

Since I'm assuming this mean the price of the conduit material only, I compared that cost out of MEANS. MEANS puts the conduit cost at $15.17/LF ($16.68/LF incl O&P). That's quite a difference!

Does anyone here (especially contractors) have any insight on whether the MEANS price is accurate? I just don't see how it's possible to get 4" PVC Schedule 80 conduit for $0.75/LF.

Thanks
 
kingpb

kingpb

Senior Member
Location
SE USA as far as you can go
Occupation
Engineer, Registered
Save them a whole bunch of money and just install the fiber cable in the existing conduit.

If someone else tells you it was .75/ft, ask them for a copy of the invoice, otherwise they're just blowing smoke up.

Price it the way you feel comfortable. It's better to sleep at night than wonder where you'll be sleeping.
 
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JDBrown

Senior Member
Location
California
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
My first thought when reading $0.75/ft. was that this must have been the price shown as a credit on somebody's change order for another project.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that a contractor was only willing to credit $0.75/ft. back to the owner for 4" conduit the owner decided he didn't want after the contractor had already purchased it. After all, the contractor had to go pick it up (or have it delivered), and now he'll have to find a place to store the stuff until he can use it on another job, or he'll have to deal with trying to return it to his supply house.

Actually, maybe somebody did bid 4" Schedule 80 at $0.75/ft. just to get it out of his warehouse!

I learned a long time ago, though, never argue with a contractor about what something is going to cost him. My boss has a favorite story about an engineer and a contractor who got into a bit of an argument (in front of the client, which is bad form anyway) over how much it was going to cost to install something. The contractor wouldn't back down even though the engineer insisted that his price was too high, and finally the contractor held out his tool belt to the engineer and said, "If you can install it for that price, have at it. But if I'm installing it, this is what it's going to cost." Who do you think looked like a fool in front of the client?

As an engineer, I never want to be in that engineer's shoes. Looking at cost estimation software and past projects can give you a pretty good ballpark figure, but ultimately it comes down to what a real live EC is going to charge. If the client doesn't like his EC's price, he can go look for a different one. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to find a contractor who will install 4" conduit of any type for $0.75/ft.
 
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petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
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JDBrown

Senior Member
Location
California
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
The more I think about this, the more I think something's just off. While I still think 75 cents per foot is way low for 4" Schedule 80, it looks an awful lot like Means is using the price per 10-foot stick but calling it price per linear foot. It wouldn't be the first time I found something a little screwy in their software. Like I said before, it can be very useful for finding ballpark numbers for a job, but you can't take every number in there as gospel truth.
 
steve66

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
Wow, this really rings a bell. I've designed a streetscape project for another town (with fiber optic conduits for future installation of fibers), used RS means prices, and also got bid prices that were much lower than my estimate. One nice thing about these State contracts with unit prices is you get to see exactly what the contractor bids for everything.

However, $.75 per foot is probably way too low for 4" conduit.

For 4" conduit, I got prices around $5 per foot. For bored in 4" conduit, it was more like $21 per foot. (I'm not sure if that was schedule 40 or schedule 80.

I also got better prices on wire than RS means had. So I do think RS means prices are generally somewhat high.

My guess is that the price you are using is for conduit installed up to 15' high, not for direct burry.

For my project 3" conduit cost more than the 4" conduit, and #12 wire cost more than #8 wire. (Maybe because I had smaller quantites of #12 and 3").

You probably won't have to worry about trenching and backfill for the conduit - with a streetscape project they will probably dig enough out replacing the sidewalks that the EC will just drop the conduits in. I think that's another reason why the price will be less than RS means.
 
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