Four Season Sunrooms

[david]

Why does the presence of heat or cooling change things?

What if I live in a moderate temperature area and I do not need heating or cooling, does that mean my home has no rooms?

My first apartment was five rooms with the only heater located in the center room. Were the other four rooms 'not habitable'?

I not sure if it needs to be habitable space for the rule to apply. I am not sure the space needs to be conditioned to be defined as a room a bathroom is not required to be conditioned space oddly enough; it still is defined as room. I think the rule looks at living space as the type of activity being done in these spaces. Are lamps, TV and other appliances generally (or regularly) being used in the space? The six ft rule is designed to address appliance cords.

 

[david]

I not sure if it needs to be habitable space for the rule to apply. I am not sure the space needs to be conditioned to be defined as a room a bathroom is not required to be conditioned space oddly enough; it still is defined as room. I think the rule looks at living space as the type of activity being done in these spaces. Are lamps, TV and other appliances generally (or regularly) being used in the space? The six ft rule is designed to address appliance cords.

 

[kwired]

Is there an echo in here?

 

[kwired]

210.52(A) starts out with:"In every kitchen, family room, dining room, living room, parlor, library, den, sunroom, bedroom, recreation room, or similar room or area of dwelling units,"

210.52(E)(3) tells us what outlets are required on balconies, decks, or porches that are accessible from inside the dwelling unit.

A typical "four seasons" room often has characteristics of both. NEC does not define any further. I still think either other codes will define this space or AHJ will have their own interpretation of what it is.

That said many cases getting 210.52(A) receptacle placement is likely something that may be desired by the owner anyway, that leaves us with whether they need GFCI or AFCI protection, and if AFCI is required, then it is also going to be required for lighting as well and not just the receptacles.

 

[JDB3]

House that I grew up in (that my father was born in {in 1907}) had a fireplace. Wood stove cooking. So "1" room house, since the other areas had no heat?

 

[mgookin]

If outside air can flow freely through this area, it's a covered porch and does not need the receptacles.

If it's solid glass or other solid panels, it's a room and needs the receptacles.

 

[petersonra]

I not sure if it needs to be habitable space for the rule to apply. I am not sure the space needs to be conditioned to be defined as a room a bathroom is not required to be conditioned space oddly enough; it still is defined as room. I think the rule looks at living space as the type of activity being done in these spaces. Are lamps, TV and other appliances generally (or regularly) being used in the space? The six ft rule is designed to address appliance cords.

a bathroom has a specific definition in the code though.

 

[petersonra]

If outside air can flow freely through this area, it's a covered porch and does not need the receptacles.

If it's solid glass or other solid panels, it's a room and needs the receptacles.

how about if it has visqueen panels? no air flowing thru them.

 

[mgookin]

how about if it has visqueen panels? no air flowing thru them.

We sometimes do that on the bottom 18" or so of the screen wall to keep bugs, grass, etc out and also for those who enjoy swimming in the birthday suit. But I've never seen a whole wall & roof system made of it.

I think we all agree a patio is exempt. Putting a roof over a patio only makes a porch - also exempt. Screened porch is still a porch. Now take those walls and cut off the freeflow of air and you no longer have a porch - you have enclosed space. That's the logic we used for 15 years and never had a problem with it.

OP has not clarified the construction of this "four seasons room" which could be $100k worth of Anderson or Pella windows or it could be a screened porch. OP needs to clarify that. The answer is only as good as the question.

 

[kwired]

House that I grew up in (that my father was born in {in 1907}) had a fireplace. Wood stove cooking. So "1" room house, since the other areas had no heat?

My father was born in 1948, they still had only 1 room with heat and other rooms were dependent on circulation from that room, and it was that way until my grandmother moved out of that house, not sure which year but sometime close to 2000.

It was an in floor gas heater with no blower - just heated via convection.

 

[petersonra]

We sometimes do that on the bottom 18" or so of the screen wall to keep bugs, grass, etc out and also for those who enjoy swimming in the birthday suit. But I've never seen a whole wall & roof system made of it.

I think we all agree a patio is exempt. Putting a roof over a patio only makes a porch - also exempt. Screened porch is still a porch. Now take those walls and cut off the freeflow of air and you no longer have a porch - you have enclosed space. That's the logic we used for 15 years and never had a problem with it.

OP has not clarified the construction of this "four seasons room" which could be $100k worth of Anderson or Pella windows or it could be a screened porch. OP needs to clarify that. The answer is only as good as the question.

it is pretty common around here to use visqueen on a screened in porch in the colder months to make the porch at least somewhat usable in the winter. keeps the wind out anyway.

 

[mgookin]

it is pretty common around here to use visqueen on a screened in porch in the colder months to make the porch at least somewhat usable in the winter. keeps the wind out anyway.

I thought you meant a heavier, permanently intalled membrane which we call Florida Glass; it transparent to light but you don't get a good view through it. So you're talking visqueen like we put under a slab. That's temporary for the cold months and I can't see an AHJ calling that enclosed space. If the actual construction is a porch, it's still a porch.

If OP wants to describe his walls & roof better, he can get a more reliable opinion.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

I think we all agree a patio is exempt. Putting a roof over a patio only makes a porch - also exempt. Screened porch is still a porch. Now take those walls and cut off the freeflow of air and you no longer have a porch - you have enclosed space. That's the logic we used for 15 years and never had a problem with it.

This is how I have handled it. If you can completely close off the outside it's a room.