You want *WHAT*?

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Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
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E
ok... 1,200 amp 480 service 3 phase, 4 wire.

nema 3R with a pull section, obviously. on a slab, out in the open.
edison vault feeding it is about 80' away. 8' x 10' pad with substructure.

now, for the secondaries, three 4" pvc would do. what
edison wants is four 5" conduits, in concrete, with no less
that TWELVE FOOT (12') radius sweeps and 90's.

the primary is one single 5", with 12' radius 90's and sweeps.

when did this 12' radius thing start?

btw, the edison print show four 750 aluminum in one conduit for
the service entrance conductors. and three spares.

you guys dealing with SCE regularly, is this normal?
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Fulthrotl said:
ok... 1,200 amp 480 service 3 phase, 4 wire.

nema 3R with a pull section, obviously. on a slab, out in the open.
edison vault feeding it is about 80' away. 8' x 10' pad with substructure.

now, for the secondaries, three 4" pvc would do. what
edison wants is four 5" conduits, in concrete, with no less
that TWELVE FOOT (12') radius sweeps and 90's.

the primary is one single 5", with 12' radius 90's and sweeps.

when did this 12' radius thing start?

btw, the edison print show four 750 aluminum in one conduit for
the service entrance conductors. and three spares.

you guys dealing with SCE regularly, is this normal?
Click to expand...

What is SCE?:blink:
 
Sierrasparky

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Fulthrotl said:
ok... 1,200 amp 480 service 3 phase, 4 wire.

nema 3R with a pull section, obviously. on a slab, out in the open.
edison vault feeding it is about 80' away. 8' x 10' pad with substructure.

now, for the secondaries, three 4" pvc would do. what
edison wants is four 5" conduits, in concrete, with no less
that TWELVE FOOT (12') radius sweeps and 90's.

the primary is one single 5", with 12' radius 90's and sweeps.

when did this 12' radius thing start?

btw, the edison print show four 750 aluminum in one conduit for
the service entrance conductors. and three spares.

you guys dealing with SCE regularly, is this normal?
Click to expand...


Sounds to me like they want the spares to feed another customer. but that would be weird too as the conduit would go to the wrong place!
 
C

cdslotz

Senior Member
Why are you even questioning it?

They want what they want for their own reasons. Every POCO is like that
 
Ponchik

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
Have you questioned them on their requirements? Maybe they have a new engineer in the office and just simply made a mistake, or they followed what their book says. If you reason with them they may back off.

Locally, my POCO inspector wanted a 36" trench on the customer property (that was already dug) to go to 48" (hand digging) but after 5 minutes of reasoning and looking over the PG&E green book, he was looking in the wrong section.

Have the representative, preferably an authority from SCE to meet you on site and challenge their requirement.
 
cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Fulthrotl said:
ok... 1,200 amp 480 service 3 phase, 4 wire.

nema 3R with a pull section, obviously. on a slab, out in the open.
edison vault feeding it is about 80' away. 8' x 10' pad with substructure.

now, for the secondaries, three 4" pvc would do. what
edison wants is four 5" conduits, in concrete, with no less
that TWELVE FOOT (12') radius sweeps and 90's.

the primary is one single 5", with 12' radius 90's and sweeps.

when did this 12' radius thing start?

btw, the edison print show four 750 aluminum in one conduit for
the service entrance conductors. and three spares.

you guys dealing with SCE regularly, is this normal?
Click to expand...

Yep it's normal. Had one guy put in 4" conduit and SCE told him that the plans called for 3" and made him change it.
 
C

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
don_resqcapt19 said:
Where is the service point?
Click to expand...

Service point would be the underground pull section that is part of his swbd.

The large radius is crazy. In Northern CA the standard is 36".

Not using all of the required raceways initially is pretty common for most POCO's. They want enough raceways to be able to install the necessary wire if the service is loaded to the max. In most cases the loads provided to them are no where near max so they just install enough wire to carry what they thing the load will be.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
curt swartz said:
Service point would be the underground pull section that is part of his swbd. ...
Click to expand...

Around here the service point for that service would be the secondary terminals of the utility transformer. The service conductors, underground, would be installed, owned and maintained by the customer. If that would be the case, the NEC, and any local amendments thereto, not the utility rules would apply to the installation.

Of course you would have to get the utility to agree because if they don't agree with your installation they will not turn the power one.

We have gotten the local utility to agree that their rules stop at the service point, expect for they still get to specify the metering equipment installation. They still have specifications that call for 36 or 48" radius bends for the underground service conduits, but they do not enforce them unless the conduits are on the line side of the service point.
 
cowboyjwc

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Here the service point is usually the line side of the meter. On residential it's at the weather head, but they still control everything to the line side of the meter.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
don_resqcapt19 said:
Where is the service point?
Click to expand...

pull section is point of connect.
service entrance feeders run about 90' to the
POCO transformer pad.

primary runs 650' to an interrupt box next to a power pole.

it's batty, but i suspect i'm not going to get them to change their
minds, so there we are. the silly radii just means i have to put
the feeders from the gear underneath the service feeders....
so i'm 30" deep with a group of four 5" service feeders, then
i have a layer of 3" 480 volt feeders, then a layer of 3" 208 volt
feeders.

i'll end up 5' 6" deep with a 2' wide bucket, and fill the whole thing with concrete.
it is what it is. my main concern is the water table, but that is easily
determined. when the bucket comes up with mud, you have arrived. :blink:
 
renosteinke

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
How deep is the trench?

With a 12-ft radius requirement, you're looking at a minimum 13-ft. deep trench. Since my previous PoCo trenches were 6-ft, I rather suspect there's an error in there somewhere.
 
P

Pullnwire

Senior Member
Location
Surrounded by Oranges
Occupation
Electrician, Business Owner, SME and Trade Instructor
I would look up the EUSERC pages that pertain to your install. 12' radius is crazy. I just did same type of thing in Santa Ana and they wanted a 10' radius 45* elbow out of the vault that I had to tie into their 12kv existing duct. Do you know how long a 10' radius 45 is? About 15 feet. Working that, 5' down in The trench, straddling the existing energized 12kv duct trying to dry fit it before tying in??? No bueno.
 
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