45 and nearly 60 year old substation transformers

[mshields]

Am involved in a project which is replacing two 34.5kV to 4160V substations one of which is nearly 60 years old!

The two substation type transformers of course had their dielectric fluid changed out to non - PCB type many moons ago. Now, however, that they are looking at disposing of these units, my understanding is that they still need to be considered contaminated by virtue of the fact that you can't count on all of the PCB oil having been removed. My question is two fold:

1) what to do with the transformers
2) might there be any other environmental concerns with these units. i.e. there wouldn't be an asbestos insulation in there would there?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[GoldDigger]

Am involved in a project which is replacing two 34.5kV to 4160V substations one of which is nearly 60 years old!

The two substation type transformers of course had their dielectric fluid changed out to non - PCB type many moons ago. Now, however, that they are looking at disposing of these units, my understanding is that they still need to be considered contaminated by virtue of the fact that you can't count on all of the PCB oil having been removed. My question is two fold:

1) what to do with the transformers
2) might there be any other environmental concerns with these units. i.e. there wouldn't be an asbestos insulation in there would there?

Thanks,

Mike

As pointed out in an earlier thread, when the PCB oil was replaced, the contractor may have been required to test the level of residual PCB in the new oil and certify that it was below a specified level. If you can find that documentation, or get the oil re-tested, you mayl not have to treat the transformer and oil as contaminated.
If it is contaminated, you need to find a certified remediation contractor to scrap the transformer for you.

If there is also asbestos, you will pay for the handling of that too.

What you end up paying will be based on the difference between the scrap value of the transformer (if any) and the cost of handling it properly, AFAIK.

 

[mshields]

follow up

follow up

Thanks a lot

Do you know if asbestos was commonly used in transformers before it fell out of favor?

 

[Ragin Cajun]

Just curious, why are they changing them out??

How does an oil analysis look? When was the last time one was analyzed?

Those vintage units just may be better than the new stuff made now. I expect the "margins" to CYA are MUCH less now than back then. I bet the new ones weigh less. :angel:

Just a thought.

RC

 

[mshields]

why are they changing them out?

why are they changing them out?

All good questions on the oil. I'll have to find out.

As for why are they changing them out? One is 45 and the other 58 years old. They are a rusty mess and we are actually changing all components of both substations including these 7.5MVA transformers, 5kV voltage regulators, bypass switches and 4160 fused switchgear that no one dares to operate.

If you'd like to have em, I bet they'd give you a hell of deal

 

[Ragin Cajun]

OK, that makes sense.

Have done similar myself.

Good luck!

RC

 

[Bradstroh]

All good questions on the oil. I'll have to find out.

As for why are they changing them out? One is 45 and the other 58 years old. They are a rusty mess and we are actually changing all components of both substations including these 7.5MVA transformers, 5kV voltage regulators, bypass switches and 4160 fused switchgear that no one dares to operate.

If you'd like to have em, I bet they'd give you a hell of deal

i would be interested in purchasing. Can you send me nameplate info and pcb results? Thanks

- Removed contact info. Exchange contact info via PM please. -

 

[zog]

All good questions on the oil. I'll have to find out.

As for why are they changing them out? One is 45 and the other 58 years old. They are a rusty mess and we are actually changing all components of both substations including these 7.5MVA transformers, 5kV voltage regulators, bypass switches and 4160 fused switchgear that no one dares to operate.

If you'd like to have em, I bet they'd give you a hell of deal

I second RC's answer about the transformers, if you need to get rid of them talk to the guys at Sunbelt Transformer. They have a location near you.

The switchgear can be refirbished easily enough with little down time and less cost than replacement as well, we do this every day. PM me if you want to look at options. If they are set on replacement I may buy that from you, depending on what it is.

 

[gadfly56]

Am involved in a project which is replacing two 34.5kV to 4160V substations one of which is nearly 60 years old!

The two substation type transformers of course had their dielectric fluid changed out to non - PCB type many moons ago. Now, however, that they are looking at disposing of these units, my understanding is that they still need to be considered contaminated by virtue of the fact that you can't count on all of the PCB oil having been removed. My question is two fold:

1) what to do with the transformers
2) might there be any other environmental concerns with these units. i.e. there wouldn't be an asbestos insulation in there would there?

Thanks,

Mike

As far as asbestos is concerned, it's my understanding that it's only an issue if it's going to be disturbed. If the insulation is buried in the transformer it may not require any special procedures when you pull the transformer. I think, however, that it will have to go to a landfill that's certified to receive asbestos contaminated materials.

 

[GoldDigger]

I suspect that even if there is asbestos involved there is enough salvage value in the transformer to make that an economical alternative to putting the whole thing into a hazardous waste site.
Zog?

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[zog]

I suspect that even if there is asbestos involved there is enough salvage value in the transformer to make that an economical alternative to putting the whole thing into a hazardous waste site.
Zog?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Nope, if fact you may have to pay someone to take it.

 

[broadgage]

Thanks a lot

Do you know if asbestos was commonly used in transformers before it fell out of favor?

No, asbestos was not normally used in the construction of oil cooled transformers.
Common insulating materials included paper, cotton tape, and various patent rigid insulating materials based on mica, none of which AFAIK contained asbestos.

 

[GoldDigger]

Nope, if fact you may have to pay someone to take it.

Would you pay more to have someone take it and process it or to just send it directly to a hazardous waste disposal site?


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[Besoeker]

Am involved in a project which is replacing two 34.5kV to 4160V substations one of which is nearly 60 years old!

The two substation type transformers of course had their dielectric fluid changed out to non - PCB type many moons ago. Now, however, that they are looking at disposing of these units, my understanding is that they still need to be considered contaminated by virtue of the fact that you can't count on all of the PCB oil having been removed. My question is two fold:

1) what to do with the transformers
2) might there be any other environmental concerns with these units. i.e. there wouldn't be an asbestos insulation in there would there?

Thanks,

Mike

Perhaps a silly question but why are the transformers being disposed of?

 

[zog]

Would you pay more to have someone take it and process it or to just send it directly to a hazardous waste disposal site?


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Someone like Sunbelt might give you something for it, thats all they do. Depends on how bad of shape they are in. I doubt there is any asbestos in there, the PCBs are the concern.

 

[Bradstroh]

Salvage value

Salvage value

OK, that makes sense.

Have done similar myself.

Good luck!

RC

Contact a-line e.d.s.
they specialize in the end of life processing of electrical equipment and you will probably be paid for the units....
alineeds.com

 

[gadfly56]

Perhaps a silly question but why are the transformers being disposed of?

See post #5.

 

[junkhound]

Perhaps a silly question but why are the transformers being disposed of?

In addition to #5:

Losses: Newer amorphous materials are able to be inexpensively made with thinner laminations, thus a 99% efficient xfmr vs a 97% eff xfmr, like adding 2% generation facility or having 3% more power to sell. 60 years ago coal was $5 a ton, no EPA, etc. A kW-hr cost a lot less to produce in relationship to transformer cost.

Life: Partial discharge damage to insulation over 60 years and chemical degradation of insulation means the failure rate of 60 YO xfmrs may soon increase - outages expensive.

Liability: As other said, it will cost more in the future to have someone dispose of them.