Worst type of residential service call

[RLyons]

For the most part I really like residential service, but every once in awhile I "one of those calls". It starts with hearing half the house, flat has no power and moves on to finding out the house is located in a area consisting of 70 year or older homes. I especially dread hearing that it is located in a low income area such as today's call.

The house in question has no power going to half the lighting and 1/3 the outlets in the same section. Another electrician apparently already attempted to trouble shoot the problem but winded up leaving never to return. The panel consisted of romex which by the age of the house leads me to believe it was rewired at some point. I see a mixture of BX and romex in the basement with no K&T present. After checking the basement and breakers I move to the upstairs switches to check if it's switch/outlet fed or fixture fed setup. First switch single 2-wire romex black feed white SL and associated light was also a single 2-wire romex, this doesn't look good. Next 3g switch was a 3way and 2 SP switches containing a 3 wire and 2-2wires all old BX but the associated light fixtures had you guessed it romex 2-wires. The feeling to turn tail and run is starting to cross my mind but I am the type of person compelled to find the problem. This is where I mention there is no attic and almost every outlet I open is a single 2-wire. After 2 hours and some change I start contemplating a re-feed of the circuit after checking continuity and for a lost neutral. I make my plan, buy some wiremould and put my plan into action and when the customer asks if everything is "safe" I reply with, I would make sure all your smokes and carbons have been replaced and are located in the appropriate places..

My questions are this, what is some of your steps/plans and resolutions for such calls? Would you even go so far as to fix the problem with such doubt of the integrity of the current wiring?

 

[nizak]

Walk away. I wouldn't even charge for the two hours, that way when the house burns down there is no record of you being there.

 

[kwired]

For the most part I really like residential service, but every once in awhile I "one of those calls". It starts with hearing half the house, flat has no power and moves on to finding out the house is located in a area consisting of 70 year or older homes. I especially dread hearing that it is located in a low income area such as today's call.

The house in question has no power going to half the lighting and 1/3 the outlets in the same section. Another electrician apparently already attempted to trouble shoot the problem but winded up leaving never to return. The panel consisted of romex which by the age of the house leads me to believe it was rewired at some point. I see a mixture of BX and romex in the basement with no K&T present. After checking the basement and breakers I move to the upstairs switches to check if it's switch/outlet fed or fixture fed setup. First switch single 2-wire romex black feed white SL and associated light was also a single 2-wire romex, this doesn't look good. Next 3g switch was a 3way and 2 SP switches containing a 3 wire and 2-2wires all old BX but the associated light fixtures had you guessed it romex 2-wires. The feeling to turn tail and run is starting to cross my mind but I am the type of person compelled to find the problem. This is where I mention there is no attic and almost every outlet I open is a single 2-wire. After 2 hours and some change I start contemplating a re-feed of the circuit after checking continuity and for a lost neutral. I make my plan, buy some wiremould and put my plan into action and when the customer asks if everything is "safe" I reply with, I would make sure all your smokes and carbons have been replaced and are located in the appropriate places..

My questions are this, what is some of your steps/plans and resolutions for such calls? Would you even go so far as to fix the problem with such doubt of the integrity of the current wiring?

If it all worked before, there is probably only one place that failed, even if there is no equipment grounding conductors.

Of course if others have attempted to fix the problem, they may have introduced new problems in their attempt.

If you don't want any part of doing anything to this without changing things to meet your standards, they by all means explain the problem to the owner, and if they don't want to spend the necessary funds to comply with your standards then tell them to have a nice day.

 

[rt66electric]

Dont walk...... RUN >>>>>>

Dont walk...... RUN >>>>>>

Give them a price to rewire the whole house, and, then leave.

 

[growler]

For the most part I really like residential service, but every once in awhile I "one of those calls". It starts with hearing half the house, flat has no power and moves on to finding out the house is located in a area consisting of 70 year or older homes.

After 2 hours and some change I start contemplating a re-feed of the circuit after checking continuity and for a lost neutral.

My questions are this, what is some of your steps/plans and resolutions for such calls? Would you even go so far as to fix the problem with such doubt of the integrity of the current wiring?

You need a circuit tracer. If the neutral is lost the easiest thing to do is find the break.

Once you know which neutral you are dealing with the circuit tracer will help locate the break quickly. If it's in a box this could be a simple repair. I find many buried boxes this way. Once you find a buried box or splice it's important to provide access for the next guy.

Don't let the fact that the first guy gave up put you off because many electricians are just not very good at trouble-shooting.

You are not responsible for the whole house, only the repair that you are hired to do. Document the problem and what was done to repair the problem. I find a loose wire in a buried box and remake the tap and make sure there is access. My repair is legal. I make a note on the invoice that there are other problems but I'm not being paid to repair them.

You may need a brake job but that's your problem and doesn't keep me from selling you new tires.

 

[petersonra]

I feel for you. It is frustrating to be out on a call like that and not be able to find the problem quickly. BTDT.

I try to be upfront with people and let them know I am no genius who will be able to find their problem real quick and that it is mostly about eliminating the more obvious problems until you find out what it is and that the process could be lengthy and thus expensive.

As long as the customer understands and is willing and able to pay, I would just proceed to work thru the potential issues until you find what it is.

if I was an EC, I would not be sending anyone out on this kind of call other than to established customers w/o a credit card charge first though.

 

[kwired]

You need a circuit tracer. If the neutral is lost the easiest thing to do is find the break.

Once you know which neutral you are dealing with the circuit tracer will help locate the break quickly. If it's in a box this could be a simple repair. I find many buried boxes this way. Once you find a buried box or splice it's important to provide access for the next guy.

Don't let the fact that the first guy gave up put you off because many electricians are just not very good at trouble-shooting.

You are not responsible for the whole house, only the repair that you are hired to do. Document the problem and what was done to repair the problem. I find a loose wire in a buried box and remake the tap and make sure there is access. My repair is legal. I make a note on the invoice that there are other problems but I'm not being paid to repair them.

You may need a brake job but that's your problem and doesn't keep me from selling you new tires.

You sell tires? I might need some soon, I may give you a call

I agree with you though. If I fixed everything I thought was not safe or non code compliant on every service call I take, many of them would turn into large jobs. That maybe doesn't relieve me from warning them of hazards, even if I don't legally need to warn them, I just feel like I am doing a good deed for someone else by at least warning them of what the consequences may be especially if something appears to be a serious danger - and yes just how dangerous something is can often be a judgement call.

 

[lightperson]

I would never walk away from a dangerous situation without warning the people who could be harmed. If they don't want to hear it, I walk away. Those people may not want to follow your advice, but you are the only person that can show them the problem. All I have to do, in a situation such as this, is picture my kids in the homeowner's spot. I would want them told.

 

[arion]

the term firetrap is what comes to my mind. any poco worth their salt wouldn't provide service to a place like that i would not even bill them i would walk and hope to god nobody dies when that place lights off. out of duty to the safety of the public i would personally on my way back to the shop pay the fire marshal a visit and drop a few hints. those kind of sites are what get firemen killed.

 

[RLyons]

I use to work in a tire warehouse...
I have a wire tracer Ideal 61-959 pretty impressive device.
This is one of those places you only want to explore so far because you are afraid of what you might find.
Only thing comes to mind after further thought is if there might have been a old fuse box someplace that the homeowner didn't know about and I forgot to ask?

 

[RLyons]

I use to work in a tire warehouse...

Being a insurance call I'm only approved for a certain amount to complete the job for a homeowner with a 2 family flat and rents the top half to family and, I can only assume she could not afford a complete rewire.
I've come across situations like this before and the money isn't there for repairs and how the property was ever purchased/rented legally by these innocent people is beyond me.

I have a wire tracer Ideal 61-959 still working out how to use it but otherwise a pretty impressive device.
This is one of those places you only want to explore so far because you are afraid of what you might find.
Only thing comes to mind after further thought is if there might have been a old fuse box someplace that the homeowner didn't know about and I forgot to be more specific about what I was looking for:slaphead:
From what I saw single 2W outlets, switchbox wiring doesn't match fixture and all on the same circuit screams junction.
It was a lost hot on the circuit (which makes me go back to thinking fuse) which I rarely find, usually neutral or short.

I did warn them of my concern and suggested new smokes and co's through out the house, replacing the 20+ year old existing.

 

[ActionDave]

the term firetrap is what comes to my mind. any poco worth their salt wouldn't provide service to a place like that i would not even bill them i would walk and hope to god nobody dies when that place lights off. out of duty to the safety of the public i would personally on my way back to the shop pay the fire marshal a visit and drop a few hints. those kind of sites are what get firemen killed.

This is over the top IMO. There are thousands if not millions of ageing electrical installs out there. The fact that they are not bursting into flames every hour is testament to the fact that even bad electrical is forgiving.

Fix the problem you were called out for, tell the owner about any concerns you have, and move on.

 

[kwired]

This is over the top IMO. There are thousands if not millions of ageing electrical installs out there. The fact that they are not bursting into flames every hour is testament to the fact that even bad electrical is forgiving.

Fix the problem you were called out for, tell the owner about any concerns you have, and move on.

:thumbsup:Some places have other issues that are slowly working on the health of the occupants. Not everyone is willing to pay for what others call necessary changes. You can state your concerns but you can't make them listen.

 

[GoldDigger]

What you do may also be affected by mandatory reporting laws in your jurisdiction.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[growler]

I make my plan, buy some wiremould and put my plan into action .

What you do may also be affected by mandatory reporting laws in your jurisdiction.

In most areas you would be required to get a permit and inspection to re-feed a circuit like this (even useing wiremold).

The best way to cover yourself is with a permit and inspection of any work done (if needed) and if the inspector doesn't see any reason to write up any violations I don't see why I should press the issue.

 

[growler]

This is over the top IMO. There are thousands if not millions of ageing electrical installs out there.

I agree.

I work on older homes in up-scale neighborhoods that can be worth more than a million dollars that still have original wiring ( some original wiring ).

I find wiring in old gas pipes and can only guess at how old it is. The two conductor romex and BX are somewhat newer.