Install Type NMB before building is dried in

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kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
stickboy1375 said:
Why not just site the definition? Location, Dry. A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a building under construction.


This solves any issues with 334.12 (B)(4)
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:thumbsup::thumbsup:

jaylectricity said:
The wire is plastic and non-ferrous materials. The nails on the boxes are steel and start to rust after even a foggy night.
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They can't do this after a roof and wall sheathing are installed?? There is often plenty of humidity inside the building during those kind of conditions as well.
iwire said:
No, the defintion of dry location does not mean you can install NM and let it get wet.

That defintion simply prevents any AHJ from claiming an area that got wet during construction is a wet location requiring wet location methods.
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So it can't get wet, yet it can:huh:

stickboy1375 said:
Seriously? Is everyone that dumb, that is the reason they added the extra context?
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iwire said:
I do not know if it ever happened but if you look at the definition of wet location I think you can see the wet and dry locations could be considered in conflict without the extra wording excluding periods of construction.
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Really?:roll:
 
S

StevenLeuck

Member
Location
Eugene, OR, USA
texie said:
I can't locate the piece I was thinking of but this may help as it is from UL. It clearly points out that incidental water contact is not an issue. Look here: http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/.../electrical/additionalresources/flooding/nmb/
Is this the same piece you found?
I might add that I know of a fair number of AHJ's that insist on full dry-in before NM cable is installed. Many even have definitions of what is dry-in is. That said, even the UL piece says the NEC does not require this. I think that there is a big difference between installing NM cable that may get a little wet and installing, say, a breaker panel(even without breakers) or a wiring device.
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Thank you! This is pretty much the same thing I found except the same wording was included in a PDF pamphlet. Thanks for taking the time to send the link.

SL
 
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petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
how are they protecting the rest of the building pieces that are likely to be damaged from exposure to the weather?

I do not have much of an issue with installing NM in a building under construction that is not completely closed in as long as the conductors are not likely to get soaked during every rain.

tell them you would have to install it in emt if he wants it done while it is still exposed to the weather and how much extra it will cost.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
petersonra said:
how are they protecting the rest of the building pieces that are likely to be damaged from exposure to the weather?

I do not have much of an issue with installing NM in a building under construction that is not completely closed in as long as the conductors are not likely to get soaked during every rain.

tell them you would have to install it in emt if he wants it done while it is still exposed to the weather and how much extra it will cost.
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AFAIC it can rain all it wants on installed cable, as long as it doesn't become submerged it will be fine.
 
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jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
iwire said:
Until then its the inspectors call based on 110.11.
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What source is the AHJ going to use to determine if "permanent damage from the weather" has occurred if they do not accept UL's findings?

Can an AHJ rule that 'indoor' electrical equipment cannot be used because it was unloaded from a truck during a rainstorm?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
jim dungar said:
What source is the AHJ going to use to determine if "permanent damage from the weather" has occurred if they do not accept UL's findings?

Can an AHJ rule that 'indoor' electrical equipment cannot be used because it was unloaded from a truck during a rainstorm?
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Worse yet if it was unloaded during a light drizzle.:(
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
jim dungar said:
What source is the AHJ going to use to determine if "permanent damage from the weather" has occurred if they do not accept UL's findings?
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The AHJ is not required to accept ULs findings, they can but untimely it is up to the AHJ.

Can an AHJ rule that 'indoor' electrical equipment cannot be used because it was unloaded from a truck during a rainstorm?
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In my opinion yes, without a doubt.
 
S

StevenLeuck

Member
Location
Eugene, OR, USA
Continued on new thread

Continued on new thread

I have opened a new thread for this at http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=158453.

The AHJ here is now considering our argument but I need a little more ammunition to push it through. The new thread is marked as a "call to action" regarding this issue. If anyone has more info per my new request, I would really appreciate it.

Also,.... for anyone following this.... can you tell me if the jurisdiction you're in is currently allowing this? The idea that other jurisdictions allow it was really intriguing to our AHJ.

Thank you.
Steven
 
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