Will the wrong bulbs in a fixture with a m58/h37 ballast. burn out the ballast?

[hockeyoligist2]

I'm not a lighting guy, I'm a machinery troubleshooter. I understand machinery , lighting isn't that easy to me.

I got a work order to repair 26 lights in a building this morning. I pulled 2 bulbs and went to the supply house and got the few they had in stock and ordered more.

I screwed the 3 that I had, in to several differant fixtures and none of them fired. I checked for voltage at the socket and I had 300 v.

Then I noticed that the bulbs that I pulled while trying the new ones were a garden variety of several differant types of bulbs! All the right wattage but differant types.

I pulled the cover off of one to check the ballast specs and it said m58/h37. I should have done that first, but I am bad about assuming the correct bulbs are in there.

Then after talking to one of the operators ..... he said that he replaced them with the 250W bulbs that he found in the storage room. He said that some burned for a few days and went out.

Long story short.... Am I looking at replacing ballasts due to the wrong bulbs? I hope not because I wil have to be a contortionist to replace most of them! They are surronded by pipes.

 

[kwired]

Many luminaires used to be rated for either mercury or metal halide lamps of same wattage, I think in general if it was rated for the metal halide a mercury lamp would work, but doesn't necessarily work so well if the ballast was rated for mercury vapor only.

 

[GoldDigger]

I do not see any clear reason why putting the wrong type of bulb with the ballast (at least of the same wattage) would damage the ballast. Unless maybe it contained a non-resetting thermal cutout.

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[hockeyoligist2]

Sorry to take so long to reply!

Sorry to take so long to reply!

I've been tied up with emergencies at work so it took me a while to install the bulbs.

After finally getting the right bulbs, I didn't have a single bad ballast. Lucky me!

I made stickers with the correct Bulb specs and put them on every fixture, with a warning to contact me first if they had questions.

It is a specialty bulb, and nothing else will fire, strange to me!

I don't have the numbers with me, but it is a Sylvania 250w and ends with "open"

Hopefully that will never happen again!

 

[kwired]

I've been tied up with emergencies at work so it took me a while to install the bulbs.

After finally getting the right bulbs, I didn't have a single bad ballast. Lucky me!

I made stickers with the correct Bulb specs and put them on every fixture, with a warning to contact me first if they had questions.

It is a specialty bulb, and nothing else will fire, strange to me!

I don't have the numbers with me, but it is a Sylvania 250w and ends with "open"

Hopefully that will never happen again!

The "open" suffix is for lamp type rated for use in open lamp construction luminaires. You must use one with this rating in such luminaires to meet codes because they have been designed to contain an arc tube that sometimes fails rather violently. If it is not designated as a open type it must be used in a luminaire that is totally enclosed. The electrical characteristics are otherwise the same and the ballast should still drive either lamp with otherwise the same designation.

 

[Sparky3141]

The ballast specified M58 (250 watt metal halide) or H37 (250 watt mercury vapor). If the 250 watt lamp that was installed was an S50 (250 watt High Pressure Sodium) and that's what you tried to re-install then that could give you fits. Swapping HPS and MH lamps will usually fire but often times will burn out the lamp or the sometimes the ballast due to the physics. I don't know all there is to know about it other than each one is engineered to fire and sustain at different voltages which strains the ballast and/or lamp to eventual failure in most cases. I certainly have seen them last for very long times though.

 

[kwired]

The ballast specified M58 (250 watt metal halide) or H37 (250 watt mercury vapor). If the 250 watt lamp that was installed was an S50 (250 watt High Pressure Sodium) and that's what you tried to re-install then that could give you fits. Swapping HPS and MH lamps will usually fire but often times will burn out the lamp or the sometimes the ballast due to the physics. I don't know all there is to know about it other than each one is engineered to fire and sustain at different voltages which strains the ballast and/or lamp to eventual failure in most cases. I certainly have seen them last for very long times though.

I can see a HPS lamp possibly starting connected to a pulse start MH ballast, but not so likely to start connected to a probe start ballast, not enough voltage without the ignitor circuit to start the arc. Mercury vapor was always probe start AFAIK.

 

[mbrooke]

Sounds like a pulse start lamp in a probe start socket. An M58 ballast is for a 250 watt probe start lamp. What is the full code of the replacement lamps? M153 or M158 is a pulse start lamp.

I would open the fixtures and check the ballasts themselves. Look for any burn marks, check the capacitor as well that its has the correct MFD within a 10% range from the stated number. It is rare for an incorrect bulb to kill a magnetic ballast. If anything the bulb will be trashed. However at worst case scenario, its no different then shorting the socket leads of the ballast. An electronic one will most likely fail within seconds but a magnetic can handle it for some time before it fails, indefinitely is not unheard of. If in doubt try a mercury vapor bulb of the same wattage and see if it lights.

 

[mbrooke]

Ends with "O"

Just forgot to add, that is most likely to be a good thing. Type O lamps are exceptionally safe in that they can run in an open fixture. By code if those high/low bays don't have a thick glass lens then that is what you should be putting inside them. If the arc tube grenades that lamp jacket will not explode sending hot glass everywhere.

 

[augie47]

You might note there is a NEC reference is regard to this, 410.130(F)(5).
You will probably find your "O" lamps have a different shape at the base to allow them to make contact whereas a "standard MH " lamp will bottom out before making contact.

 

[hockeyoligist2]

You might note there is a NEC reference is regard to this, 410.130(F)(5).
You will probably find your "O" lamps have a different shape at the base to allow them to make contact whereas a "standard MH " lamp will bottom out before making contact.

I think that is the answer Augie! I do remember that the base was more "pointy" than normal. So the others were probably not making contact.

I will look closer when I go back to work Thursday.

The ballasts are M58 and said to only use M58-H37 type replacement bulbs.

mbrooke, They are open fixtures and several of the correct bulbs that were out were shattered on the inside but still OK on the outside.

I don't know the full code of the replacement lamps, I'll get that info Thursday.

 

[mbrooke]

How old were the lamps that you found shattered inside? If they were several years old it sounds normal however if these are newer lamps something is a miss.


High wattage type O lamps will have a longer pin at the bottom. They will fit in a white or pink socket, however the pink socket will not take a regular bulb. Low wattage lamps have a modified skirt that will go into a pink socket but a regular bulb will not.


M58/H37 means either a 250 watt probe start metal halide lamp or a Mercury vapor bulb hence the dual rating.

 

[kwired]

How old were the lamps that you found shattered inside? If they were several years old it sounds normal however if these are newer lamps something is a miss.


High wattage type O lamps will have a longer pin at the bottom. They will fit in a white or pink socket, however the pink socket will not take a regular bulb. Low wattage lamps have a modified skirt that will go into a pink socket but a regular bulb will not.


M58/H37 means either a 250 watt probe start metal halide lamp or a Mercury vapor bulb hence the dual rating.

I never knew there were pink and white sockets - that had any meaning behind the color. That said, on an existing installation often with the combinations of poor lighting, dirt, dust, etc. why wouldn't they have chosen more contrasting colors for easier determination of what socket you have?

 

[hockeyoligist2]

How old were the lamps that you found shattered inside? If they were several years old it sounds normal however if these are newer lamps something is a miss.


High wattage type O lamps will have a longer pin at the bottom. They will fit in a white or pink socket, however the pink socket will not take a regular bulb. Low wattage lamps have a modified skirt that will go into a pink socket but a regular bulb will not.


M58/H37 means either a 250 watt probe start metal halide lamp or a Mercury vapor bulb hence the dual rating.

They were about 4 years old. The correct bulbs do have a longer pin.

The sockets are pink also, I had noticed that earlier and thought it might be discoloration from the heat.