Ground rods & rehab

[jrvariel48]

I'm replacing an existing 100 amp panel with a new 100 amp panel due to water damage.
Do I need to install ground rods, communication ground & 2-pole breakers for 3-wire circuits??
Does this fall under rehab?
Thank you,
Joe

 

[ActionDave]

I would say yes. You may get by w/o two pole breakers or handle ties but that would be up to your inspector.

 

[infinity]

IMO you could just replace the panel under the rehab code.

 

[dhalleron]

Depends on your jurisdiction. Around here they enforce ground rod, water ground if copper pipe and intersystem grounding bar. They don't require 2 pole breakers for MWBC if it was existing.

 

[petersonra]

I'm replacing an existing 100 amp panel with a new 100 amp panel due to water damage.
Do I need to install ground rods, communication ground & 2-pole breakers for 3-wire circuits??
Does this fall under rehab?
Thank you,
Joe

I don't see why you could not reuse the existing GES if it was compliant. Is there a NJ requirement for new ground rods if you replace the service panel?

Since you are replacing the panel, I don't see that it is a huge inconvenience to use two pole breakers on MWBCs.

I don't know anything about the NJ rehab code.

 

[infinity]

The rehab code would allow you to install a new panel to mitigate a hazard, like when the old panel was damaged, and not require you to bring the entire installation up to the current code.

 

[jrvariel48]

Ground rods & rehab

Thank you to all that responded! Great information on this forum!!
Can anyone tell me if this is definitively written in the rehab sub-code?
Thanks again,
Joe

 

[infinity]

You can look here:
NJAC 5:23-6 Rehabilitation Subcode

Or just call the electrical sub-code official in the town or city.

 

[jxofaltrds]

The rehab code would allow you to install a new panel to mitigate a hazard, like when the old panel was damaged, and not require you to bring the entire installation up to the current code.

"mitigate a hazard". Sounds like you are saying 'small hazards' would not require repair???? IMHO the cabinet replacement would require it to be installed to todays code (codified). Now the "panelboard" being replaced may not have to.

 

[infinity]

"mitigate a hazard". Sounds like you are saying 'small hazards' would not require repair???? IMHO the cabinet replacement would require it to be installed to todays code (codified). Now the "panelboard" being replaced may not have to.

The OP said water damage which one might guess would likely include the cabinet. The NJ rehab code allows hazard correction without requiring the entire installation to be brought up to current code.

 

[jxofaltrds]

The OP said water damage which one might guess would likely include the cabinet. The NJ rehab code allows hazard correction without requiring the entire installation to be brought up to current code.

That's what confuses me. OP 'split feeds' would you allow single breakers? What if there was more than six throws of the hand? Replacing the 'panel', to me, is not a like for like replacement. I also do not like causing undue hardship on the public.

Bottom line is that we would probably agree that this would be a case by case call.

 

[infinity]

Bottom line is that we would probably agree that this would be a case by case call.

Exactly.

 

[mwm1752]

The rehab code would allow you to install a new panel to mitigate a hazard, like when the old panel was damaged, and not require you to bring the entire installation up to the current code.

Isn't the simontaneously disconnect of multiconductors circuits a mitigation of hazard? doesn't afci & gfci protection fall into the same catagory? Are you changing the panel due to only one hazard? Are you intending on using the existing breakers ?

 

[RICK NAPIER]

The OP said water damage which one might guess would likely include the cabinet. The NJ rehab code allows hazard correction without requiring the entire installation to be brought up to current code.

I agree.
6.4 Repairs

(e) The following products and practices shall be required, when applicable:2. Existing electrical wiring and equipment undergoing repair or replacement shall be allowed tobe replaced with like material except for the following: (Electrical)i. Replacement of electrical receptacles shall comply with the requirements contained inSection 406.3(D) of the electrical subcode;ii. Plug fuses of the Edison-base type shall be used only for replacements where there is noevidence of over fusing or tampering per Section 240.51(B) of the electrical subcode;iii. For replacement of nongrounding-type receptacles with grounding-type receptacles, theequipment grounding conductor of a grounding type receptacle outlet shall be permitted to beconnected, in accordance with Section 250.130(C) of the electrical subcode;iv. Non-"hospital grade" receptacles in patient bed locations of health care facilities, Group I-2,shall be replaced with "hospital grade" receptacles; andv. Frames of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units, clothesdryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of the existing branch circuit for these appliances,except for mobile homes and recreational vehicles, shall be permitted to be grounded to thegrounded circuit conductor if all the conditions of Section 250.140 of the electrical subcode are​

met.

Since electrical panels are not listed here you can replace it without upgrading the grounding electrode system but since grounding is mentioned in co requirements inspectors are suppose to check to make sure grounding electrodes are in compliance with codes that would have been in effect when the original installation was performed. For older systems this is often just checking for a cold water ground.

 

[mwm1752]

Rick,
I agree the Inspector should validate the electrode system but shouldn't the Electrical Contractor investigate for proper grounding prior to inspection anyway? I would expect any reliable Electrical contractor to make sure the system grounding is safe.
I noticed the 6.4 Repairs concentrates on receptacle repair & replacement - Are permits required for that type of work? Generally, replacements & minor extensions are considered service work which is the responsibility of the contractor to perform to NEC code.

 

[jrvariel48]

Ground rods & rehab

I spoke with the other inspector on Tuesday. Our town has two.
He told me I was correct & that no updating of the grounding system was needed because this was simply a repair.
He said he still wanted the 2 pole breakers for the three wire circuits which is not a problem.
The original grounding system was in fine shape. Someone install jumpers at the water meter & hot water heater.
I was not trying to avoid installing ground rods on this job & I usually do, but in this case we were dealing with a 94 year old women on a fixed income.
I really didn't see the need to add any additional cost to the job since I felt it was not needed to begin with.
Thank you to everyone who responded!
This is a great site!
Thank you,
Joe

 

[infinity]

As Rick noted this falls under a repair as part of the NJ rehab code. That may be confusing to some who must only follow the NEC.

 

[mwm1752]

Rob,
Usually, when using more than 1 code the most restrictive applies -- IMO I do not see the NJ code as presented, as most restrictive -- I was really more interested if permits were required in NJ for recepticle replacements as listed per NEC & there Code. My full Combination Inspector qualifications have me follow more codes than the NEC --- which can be confusing.

 

[kwired]

Rob,
Usually, when using more than 1 code the most restrictive applies -- IMO I do not see the NJ code as presented, as most restrictive -- I was really more interested if permits were required in NJ for recepticle replacements as listed per NEC & there Code. My full Combination Inspector qualifications have me follow more codes than the NEC --- which can be confusing.

Can't say I know the mentioned "rehab code" but doesn't exactly sound like a code as much as it is an exception list for specific applications that allows you to replace like for like and not to have to replace to current code standards. It may still have other complexities but is probably sort of based on the assumption that the original installation was code compliant at the time it was installed, before you can simply swap out like for like components.

 

[mwm1752]

Can't say I know the mentioned "rehab code" but doesn't exactly sound like a code as much as it is an exception list for specific applications that allows you to replace like for like and not to have to replace to current code standards. It may still have other complexities but is probably sort of based on the assumption that the original installation was code compliant at the time it was installed, before you can simply swap out like for like components.

"rehab code"????