Would You Do This ?

[petersonra]

In OP situation something sounds fishy: $850 no permit work $1750 with getting the permits????? Cost of the permit is $850?? :happysad::happysad:

It would not surprise me all that much.

 

[mgookin]

Just for discussion let's assume the work can be done legally without a permit, and at the option of the owner or contractor, a permit can be pulled.

When I worked in a building department I had applications where I would call the applicant and say no permit is required, but their response would be "well I'd like a permit anyway" and so I'd approve the application. It does happen.

So this guy, let's assume he is duly licensed, wants to charge $850 for the permit.
He has to obtain signatures on the application.
He has to fill out the application and make a trip to the building dep't. Let's assume it's an over the counter permit and the building dept is 25 miles away.
For a round number let's say the permit fees total $100.
He has to call for inspection and coordinate access for the inspector, and at his option (normally), either be on site or not.

How many hours do you EC's have in those processes?
And what's your hourly rate for your time?

Now do the math.
How far off is this guy?
Is he over by $100-$200 or is he tripling his costs?

He just might have more time in the permit than in the actual work as we all know does happen.

 

[kwired]

Just for discussion let's assume the work can be done legally without a permit, and at the option of the owner or contractor, a permit can be pulled.

When I worked in a building department I had applications where I would call the applicant and say no permit is required, but their response would be "well I'd like a permit anyway" and so I'd approve the application. It does happen.

So this guy, let's assume he is duly licensed, wants to charge $850 for the permit.
He has to obtain signatures on the application.
He has to fill out the application and make a trip to the building dep't. Let's assume it's an over the counter permit and the building dept is 25 miles away.
For a round number let's say the permit fees total $100.
He has to call for inspection and coordinate access for the inspector, and at his option (normally), either be on site or not.

How many hours do you EC's have in those processes?
And what's your hourly rate for your time?

Now do the math.
How far off is this guy?
Is he over by $100-$200 or is he tripling his costs?

He just might have more time in the permit than in the actual work as we all know does happen.

Not all permitting processes are created equal. I would have to drive about 200 miles if I wanted to apply in person at the office. But I can get a permit in minutes 24/7 by applying online. Contractor is responsible for filing permits here, only time an owner does is if they are doing work themselves (when/where allowed) or owners can request inspections at any time even if no new installation has been done.

Maintenance work where like components are only being replaced does not require a permit, agricultural work does not require a permit, residential work where a new service is not being installed does not require a permit, pretty much everything else requires a permit.

My cost for a permit for the OP's situation would be $25 if a 100 amp service, $35 if a 200 amp service (it goes up even more for higher amp services). If this were a sub panel and not the service panel in a dwelling a permit would not even be required as I am not installing a new service. Additional fee of $5 per new branch circuit installed is added to the $25 or $35. So if no new branch circuits are installed and all that happens is changing out the service panel, permit fee could be as little as $25, so if that guy in the OP charged $850 more for a permit here, he is either ripping the customer off in permit fees, or likely he is knowingly not installing to code and not using as expensive of materials/cutting out necessary items as he knows he would have to use those items to pass inspections.

 

[kbsparky]

I've heard of jurisdictions where a permit to replace a panel would cost upwards of $300.00

Then the electrician would have to wait around all day to be present for the inspector to show up (at his leisure, too) to obtain approval.

Such outrageous costs and procedures can indeed add up to $900 or more, (did anyone check the math of the OP?) for a simple job that would take only a couple of hours to complete.

As for the hack job, I have replaced the guts of panels like this before, but usually kept the brand the same to minimize problems getting the cover to fit.

 

[kwired]

As for the hack job, I have replaced the guts of panels like this before, but usually kept the brand the same to minimize problems getting the cover to fit.

Going back to what was installed in the OP, a GE interior was placed in a cabinet that housed a QO interior. Depending on what combinations of tandems existed, and whether or not the new interior accepted 1/2 inch breakers this may or may not fit very well as regular GE breakers are 1 inch wide and QO breakers are only 3/4 inch wide, but apparently he got it installed somehow.

 

[GerryB]

Going back to what was installed in the OP, a GE interior was placed in a cabinet that housed a QO interior. Depending on what combinations of tandems existed, and whether or not the new interior accepted 1/2 inch breakers this may or may not fit very well as regular GE breakers are 1 inch wide and QO breakers are only 3/4 inch wide, but apparently he got it installed somehow.

Because the OP said he screwed the GE cover to the wall. He didn't use the sq d cover, if that is what you meant. But I would think the GE cover should somehow be bonded to the old can.

 

[kwired]

Because the OP said he screwed the GE cover to the wall. He didn't use the sq d cover, if that is what you meant. But I would think the GE cover should somehow be bonded to the old can.

I wasn't even thinking about the cover, but now that you brought it up, it probably should be bonded to the can somehow.

 

[growler]

The condo management told him that they wouldn't open the room so we could shut it off without a permit.

For $850, they took the live feeder off the panel main lugs and taped them up. No electric room access needed. Then they pulled the bus out of the existing Square D can and screwed in a new GE bus with GE breakers. Then they screwed the GE panel cover to the wall.
I'm pissed.

Would I have done this? The answer is no.

 

[growler]

My friend calls a contractor who tells him the job will be $1,700, but if he will let them do it without a permit, it will cost $850. He said okay.

The homeowner should have called around to see what the going price for the job would have been with a permit to change the panel.

$1700 sounds a bit high for a panel change but I didn't see the job and I don't know how much trouble it is to obtain a permit in that area. That's why it's important to get a second opinion from a local contractor.

 

[growler]

but apparently he got it installed somehow.

You really can put a square peg in a round hole if you have a big enough hammer.