identification

[kwired]

408.4 Field Identification Required.
(A) Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification. Every circuit
and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as to
its clear, evident, and specific purpose or use. The identification
shall include sufficient detail to allow each circuit to
be distinguished from all others. Spare positions that contain
unused overcurrent devices or switches shall be described
accordingly. The identification shall be included in
a circuit directory that is located on the face or inside of the
panel door in the case of a panelboard, and located at each
switch or circuit breaker in (new 2011) a switchboard. No circuit shall
be described in a manner that depends on transient conditions
of occupancy.

"at each" ?????

That is fine and dandy and needs to be done, but that only requires a "directory" (or other effective means?) of identifying what loads are connected to switches or circuit breakers in a panelboard or switchboard. The topic of the thread is dealing with identification of the conductors. It would not be an NEC violation to run all same color of grounded conductors with no additional identification means - other than identification of different voltage/phase systems when you have more than one.

 

[petersonra]

I think it is moderately pointless to identify individual conductors unless there is a drawing, list, index or something that tells someone down the road what they mean.

Sometimes they can be pretty obvious but it makes little sense to get elaborate if a guy 5 years from now looks at them and just scratches his head and wonders what they mean.

 

[jxofaltrds]

That is fine and dandy and needs to be done, but that only requires a "directory" (or other effective means?) of identifying what loads are connected to switches or circuit breakers in a panelboard or switchboard. The topic of the thread is dealing with identification of the conductors. It would not be an NEC violation to run all same color of grounded conductors with no additional identification means - other than identification of different voltage/phase systems when you have more than one.

I agree. I think the stamped # at each breaker meets the "at each" requirement.

 

[GoldDigger]

And the "at each switch" provision is only for switchboards, not panelboards, FWIW.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[kwired]

And the "at each switch" provision is only for switchboards, not panelboards, FWIW.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

And the wording where that is mentioned is all about identifying what is disconnected and not about identifying the conductors attached to it. I think Mike still hasn't gotten my hint that the thread is about conductor identification, his comment was about switch and circuit breaker identification.

 

[jxofaltrds]

And the wording where that is mentioned is all about identifying what is disconnected and not about identifying the conductors attached to it. I think Mike still hasn't gotten my hint that the thread is about conductor identification, his comment was about switch and circuit breaker identification.

Always get the hints.:happyyes: One OP example was #ing the hots to the breaker hence my reference.

Wasn't talking about grounded conductors or egc's.

 

[kwired]

Always get the hints.:happyyes: One OP example was #ing the hots to the breaker hence my reference.

Wasn't talking about grounded conductors or egc's.

That breaker number has no meaning though when it comes to requirements in 408.4 other than it can be a key to tell what breaker the same number in the legend relates to. One could easily use some other kind of key, and not all panelboards have numbers stamped next to the breaker positions either.

One could easily label the conductors with names instead of numbers - and it may even make troubleshooting easier, but could make the labels bulkier, and pretty much requires a machine to make such labels otherwise you would really spend some time with just "letter" marker cards.

Numbering conductors same as the breaker space they terminate to could be nothing more than a convenience to whoever makes up the panel, it may already be determined what loads connect to which specific breaker positions, and all that person needs to do is land the conductors on those spots and doesn't really need to pay much attention to anything else.

 

[jxofaltrds]

That breaker number has no meaning though when it comes to requirements in 408.4 other than it can be a key to tell what breaker the same number in the legend relates to. One could easily use some other kind of key, and not all panelboards have numbers stamped next to the breaker positions either.

One could easily label the conductors with names instead of numbers - and it may even make troubleshooting easier, but could make the labels bulkier, and pretty much requires a machine to make such labels otherwise you would really spend some time with just "letter" marker cards.

Numbering conductors same as the breaker space they terminate to could be nothing more than a convenience to whoever makes up the panel, it may already be determined what loads connect to which specific breaker positions, and all that person needs to do is land the conductors on those spots and doesn't really need to pay much attention to anything else.

We agree. I was pointing out what was added in 2011. And stating that I think it means identifying it at the breaker and the directory, not the conductor.