Ceiling Fan Install

[cleveland]

Good snowy and cold afternoon,

My son is wanting to install a ceiling fan in his 25 year old house. There are several fans present in the residence but this one would be new at an existing light location. He just bought this house so what was done at the other fan locations is not known.

Can I assume that the existing box is just nix, nein, verboten for use as a fan support? Is there any chance that the box may have an allowable weight stamped on it? If so is this information easily seen by prying eyes? Don't worry we'll have an electrician involved ultimately. I'm a retired P.E. who still doesn't want to lose that license.

Also, as a big picture question: are electricians just defaulting to replacing ceiling boxes when installing ceiling fans in existing structures?

Thanks,

Jim K

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Unless the house is relatively new I would bet there is no box rated for Fans in the ceiling. They make boxes that can retro into place if you don't have an attic above

 

[cleveland]

Unless the house is relatively new I would bet there is no box rated for Fans in the ceiling. They make boxes that can retro into place if you don't have an attic above

Thanks for the information.

Jim K.

 

[GoldDigger]

Unless the house is relatively new I would bet there is no box rated for Fans in the ceiling. They make boxes that can retro into place if you don't have an attic above

Hopefully the wires to the existing box will be long enough to allow you to remove the existing box and rewire into the new box.
Out of curiosity, will he be using pull chains or a remote to control new and light or will he be replacing the light with fan only?
If the latter, is there another qualifying lighting outlet in the room?


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[mjf]

In answer to your other question, I have never seen a fan rated box that wasn't clearly marked/stamped.

 

[GoldDigger]

Marked on the inside?

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[mjf]

Marked on the inside?

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Hmmmmmmm........good question:slaphead:

wonder if I still have time to go back and edit that post:angel:.... at least marked to a trained eye with 10/32 threads!

 

[jumper]

Hmmmmmmm........good question:slaphead:

wonder if I still have time to go back and edit that post:angel:.... at least marked to a trained eye with 10/32 threads!

Why? Seemed like a good post to me.

 

[cleveland]

Hopefully the wires to the existing box will be long enough to allow you to remove the existing box and rewire into the new box.
Out of curiosity, will he be using pull chains or a remote to control new and light or will he be replacing the light with fan only?
If the latter, is there another qualifying lighting outlet in the room?


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Hmmmm..... not sure about the new unit. I've only heard "fan" but maybe it is a combo fan/light unit. I understand your point about losing the required lighting outlet if it is only a fan. Thanks for that tip.

Jim K.

 

[GerryB]

Myself I'm usually comfortable installing a fan on almost any metal box that might be in the ceiling, as long as it feels secure and it is not an extra heavy fan. If the house is only 25 years old you may have plastic boxes, which is good because they are not to hard to break up and remove and install a box like Dennis showed.

 

[GoldDigger]

You should be able to tell by feel whether it is attached to a joist or just resting on the ceiling board.
A lightweight fan may weigh less than an elaborate lighting fixture.

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[readydave8]

You should be able to tell by feel whether it is attached to a joist or just resting on the ceiling board.
A lightweight fan may weigh less than an elaborate lighting fixture.

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Weight of fan versus existing light fixture not the only consideration, torque and vibration make a big difference?

 

[handy10]

Aren't the screws for a fan box #10 and any other box #8?

 

[ritelec]

Myself I'm usually comfortable installing a fan on almost any metal box that might be in the ceiling, as long as it feels secure and it is not an extra heavy fan.

If I'm installing new...I'll go the approved route ................ personally.......I've installed quite few (as I'm sure alot of you gents have) before the "approved fan box support"
article..........
Including 10 in my home............and many others,, well....

I've never seen or heard of a fan falling.

The only issues sometimes would be circuits being out and looking for poor splices at the wobbly or vibrating poorly installed ceiling fan.

 

[John120/240]

If I'm installing new...I'll go the approved route ................ personally.......I've installed quite few (as I'm sure alot of you gents have) before the "approved fan box support"
article..........
Including 10 in my home............and many others,, well....

I've never seen or heard of a fan falling.

The only issues sometimes would be circuits being out and looking for poor splices at the wobbly or vibrating poorly installed ceiling fan.

Iv'e seen one fall & just be hanging by the ground wire that was wrapped around a screw. A fiberglass 8 B box was used. Other details are fuzzy as it was ten years ago or more.

Expandable fan brackets are handy & easy to install. For replacing an existing fixture I would use 14-3 romex from switch to fixture so that he could have independent control of the light & fan. using a remote control makes the three wire a moot point.

 

[PetrosA]

You can install a fan to a regular 4" round or pancake, provided the box is mounted to a structural member and the fan bracket is attached to the structural member instead of the box. In wood framed ceilings this can be done if the pancake is mounted to the bottom of a joist, or with a 4" round mounted to a crosspiece which is securely mounted to two joists.

 

[ritelec]

Expandable fan brackets are handy & easy to install. For replacing an existing fixture I would use 14-3 romex from switch to fixture so that he could have independent control of the light & fan. using a remote control makes the three wire a moot point.

of course thats if the feed was coming from the switch and not the ceiling light outlet.........
we wouldn't not to have a neutral at the switch location now would we ?

 

[kwired]

Aren't the screws for a fan box #10 and any other box #8?

That seems to be common, not sure if it is a standard though. There are some fan boxes designed to accept either # 8 or #10 screws, but I believe the instructions require using the #10 for fan support.

You can install a fan to a regular 4" round or pancake, provided the box is mounted to a structural member and the fan bracket is attached to the structural member instead of the box. In wood framed ceilings this can be done if the pancake is mounted to the bottom of a joist, or with a 4" round mounted to a crosspiece which is securely mounted to two joists.

The structural member isn't a requirement, which the mentioned crosspiece would not be a structural member. It just has to be something structurally sound enough to support the load. A true structural member is something that if compromised may result in weakening of the structure integrity. But yes to your main point, if the fan is supported directly by the box it must be a rated fan box, if not supported by the box then it doesn't matter whether it is a fan box or not. Shallow box on a joist or other solid member is an easy way to mount without the use of a fan box, just use long support screws into the framing member, instead of hanging from the box.

 

[cleveland]

That seems to be common, not sure if it is a standard though. There are some fan boxes designed to accept either # 8 or #10 screws, but I believe the instructions require using the #10 for fan support.

The structural member isn't a requirement, which the mentioned crosspiece would not be a structural member. It just has to be something structurally sound enough to support the load. A true structural member is something that if compromised may result in weakening of the structure integrity. But yes to your main point, if the fan is supported directly by the box it must be a rated fan box, if not supported by the box then it doesn't matter whether it is a fan box or not. Shallow box on a joist or other solid member is an easy way to mount without the use of a fan box, just use long support screws into the framing member, instead of hanging from the box.

Thanks for all the good comments and ideas. It is a new fan/light combo we're dealing with. I'm thinking if we get a remote control we'll be minimally compliant The ceiling outlet is still switched from the wall but depending where the remote control is set that light might not come on. Or am I really confused here?? I know use velcro and mount the remote on the wall!

Thanks again,

Jim K

 

[mjf]

Thanks for all the good comments and ideas. It is a new fan/light combo we're dealing with. I'm thinking if we get a remote control we'll be minimally compliant The ceiling outlet is still switched from the wall but depending where the remote control is set that light might not come on. Or am I really confused here?? I know use velcro and mount the remote on the wall!

Thanks again,

Jim K

Usually you can remove the switch itself put on a blank cover and mount the remote (holder) right to the blank cover.

This is what I did in my dining room....as a matter of fact, I bought an extra remote, set it to the same frequency and mounted it to the wall next to the other "entrance" to the room and created a "3-way switch" controlling both the fan and/or the light as wanted.