European Outlet Amp Ratings

[fmtjfw]

This problem was solved decades ago.

This problem was solved decades ago.

Use a flanged plug of the IEC 60320 C-13 form. (look on the back of almost any desktop computer for instance.) Then either provide the cord with the proper local plug on one end and the C-13 connector on the other or let the customer buy it locally.

Decades ago computer manufacturers who had/wanted a world market used the C-13 connector mounted in their equipment and supplied the country specific code. If you want to cover the international market there are about a dozen "mains" plugs in use. Cords with these mains plugs and C-13 outlets are extremely common.

If you want to work "anywhere" this physical solution -- together with a voltage (100-230V) and frequency (50-60Hz) agnostic power supply is just the ticket.

 

[GoldDigger]

A link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_circuit

Thanks!
One thing that keeps me wondering is the comment that failure of one side of a ring can "reduce" the life of the cable in the other side of the ring.
What typically happens at the end of that reduced life?

 

[fifty60]

The C13 is only used for 13A circuits right? My equipment FLA is 12A, so I cannot use a 13A outlet right? I would need to go with the C19 for a 16A outlet...would I have the same flexibility with a C19 type connector on my equipment?

 

[Besoeker]

The C13 is only used for 13A circuits right? My equipment FLA is 12A, so I cannot use a 13A outlet right?

Don't see why not..........

 

[PetrosA]

I can't speak for all countries, but the Schuko should be your safest bet, like the 81070 cord rated at 16A 230V. There are two common grounding receptacles in the EU, the German style with two metal spring connectors on the edges, or the French type with a ground pin sticking out of the receptacle. Schuko cords can be plugged into either system and are functionally grounded in both systems.

In EU countries other than the UK, two common size circuits are run - 10A and 16A. In residential, there would typically be a 16A circuit for the range and a second one for the washing machine (a third for a dryer in some homes). All the other receptacles in a home would be 10A. In a commercial or industrial setting, there could also be a mix of circuits installed, so you should specify 16A as the circuit required for your equipment. If you will be buying in bulk, you may want to check prices direct from an EU supplier.

 

[broadgage]

In the UK the only domestic outlet is the 13A socket. That will provide 13 x 230 = 2990W.

The only items which would require more power are the cooker (range) or electric shower (8 - 10KW). These items would be hardwired on a dedicated circuit. Anything portable & needing more than 3kW is unheard of in a domestic setting here in the UK.


Even in a commercial setting 99% of the convenience outlets would be 13A sockets. Many offices will have no other outlet. In heavier industry then the 'Ceeform' would be outlet of choice. These come in 16A, 32A, 63A & 125A flavours.


Adrian

Yes, and to add to the points above, other designs of outlet do exist and are still allowed domesticly but are usually considered obsolete except for special purposes.

Otherwise obsolete outlets that take a round pin plug rated at 5 amps are still available, they are sometimes fitted in high end homes for the connection of table lamps etc, often switched and sometimes dimmed from beside the door. Permits of portable lamps etc being switched from the doorway.

Another largely obsolete type also has round pins and is rated at 15 amps, not much used these days, but I have installed them for heaters especialy if the outlets are controlled by a timeswitch or thermostat, unlike the regular 13 amp outlets that are almost allways live continually.

Storage type water heaters are usually 3KW and are sometimes connected via a 15 amp outlet and matching plug, but are more often hard wired.
The use of a regular 13 amp plug for a 3KW storage type water heater is unwise as the plug may overheat if run at full load for hours on end in warm suroundings.

The "ceeform" outlets refered to above, could in principle be installed domesticly, but in practice this is virtually unknown.

Domestic services in the UK are usually single phase at 60, 80 or 100 amps. A few are 125 amps, and some are only 40 amps, but these are very rare.

Nothing prohibits a 3 phase service to a home, but this is rare except for larger properties for which 100 or 125 amps single phase might be insufficient.
It is most unusual to provide any 3 phase appliances, outlets or circuits in UK homes.

 

[Besoeker]

Does the "n" pin supply the equipment grounding condutor?
Or does it not have an equipment grounding conductor?

ice

It has been brought to my attention that this, although described as 3-phase+n, is actually 3-phase+e.
I apologise for this and any confusion caused.

 

[broadgage]

Thanks!
One thing that keeps me wondering is the comment that failure of one side of a ring can "reduce" the life of the cable in the other side of the ring.
What typically happens at the end of that reduced life?

In practice nothing happens.
Failure of ring final circuits are very rare, subsequent long term overloading of one side of the ring is rarer still.
In theory the cable might fail by softening of the insulating material and conductors touching and blowing the fuse.
I do not recall EVER having seen this happen though.

 

[broadgage]

It has been brought to my attention that this, although described as 3-phase+n, is actually 3-phase+e.
I apologise for this and any confusion caused.

Yes, the type of red ceeform connector with 4 pins is for 3 phase and earth (EGC in USA terms) such a connector has no provision for phase to neutral loads. Typical applications would be 3 phase motors.

Rather similar connectors exist with 5 pins, for 3 phase, and neutral, and earth.
These can supply both single phase, 230 volt loads between phase and neutral, and 400 volt loads between phase and phase.
Typical applications include theatre lighting dimmers, and distribution units with a number of 13 amp domestic sockets for temporary use at exhibitions and outdoor events.
3 phase machine tools, if not hard wired, would typicly be equiped with a 5 pin 3 phase plug since controls or lights on the tool usually need a neutral.

 

[larsahl]

By my knowledge:
Typical outlet in Europe is 10A 230V in houses/apartments/offices.
Exception for England which have 13A.
In some environment in Europe there is 16A 230V such as laboratories/works shops/industries/some houses.

Nearly every European country have the Schuko CEE 7.
Except for England which have a different and Denmark but I think the CEE 7/7 plug is quite universal that works fine if you need earth.

 

[Besoeker]

By my knowledge:
Exception for England which have 13A.

Not just England. The United Kingdom.

 

[broadgage]

Not just England. The United Kingdom.

And also a few other places that are, or were formerly UK influenced.
The Falkland Isles, Cyprus, Malta, and a few parts of Africa.

South Africa uses mainly the old type UK 15 amp outlets that are obsolete here for general use. They rate them at 16 amps in South Africa, though it is the same design.

 

[kwired]

Thanks!
One thing that keeps me wondering is the comment that failure of one side of a ring can "reduce" the life of the cable in the other side of the ring.
What typically happens at the end of that reduced life?

In practice nothing happens.
Failure of ring final circuits are very rare, subsequent long term overloading of one side of the ring is rarer still.
In theory the cable might fail by softening of the insulating material and conductors touching and blowing the fuse.
I do not recall EVER having seen this happen though.

But does this ring circuit actually use reduced capacity conductors and count on the paralleling to prevent overloading the conductor? I thought is was more of a case where the conductor has enough capacity to handle the current from a single run, but they bring the end of the circuit back to the source just for the purpose of a little better performance from voltage drop, or increased reliability should one "home run" happen to fail for whatever reason. What I am trying to say is that a circuit supplying 13 amp receptacles still uses conductor that can carry 13 amps even if an open develops in the ring, it just may experience more voltage drop if an open condition develops.

 

[AdrianWint]

But does this ring circuit actually use reduced capacity conductors and count on the paralleling to prevent overloading the conductor? I thought is was more of a case where the conductor has enough capacity to handle the current from a single run, but they bring the end of the circuit back to the source just for the purpose of a little better performance from voltage drop, or increased reliability should one "home run" happen to fail for whatever reason. What I am trying to say is that a circuit supplying 13 amp receptacles still uses conductor that can carry 13 amps even if an open develops in the ring, it just may experience more voltage drop if an open condition develops.

The ring is wired in 2.5mm sq twin & earth. This is rated at 21 - 24A depending on its installation method. It will be supply an unlimited number of 13A sockets & will be fed from a 32A MCB. So, yes it does rely on the parallel runs to achieve the required ampacity but, as I explained in my post #33 a few pages back, even if one leg does become open circuit its rarely a problem in reality (although it is a problem 'on paper'). It was devised as a economy method to reduce cable lengths & not from a reduce volt drop standpoint.

Adrian

 

[Besoeker]

The ring is wired in 2.5mm sq twin & earth.
Adrian

Doesn't it predate our adoption of metric conductor sizes so might have been something like 6/.044?

 

[AdrianWint]

Doesn't it predate our adoption of metric conductor sizes so might have been something like 6/.044?

Probably ..... it was devised in the 1940s .... so I guess it would...... alas I post-date the change from imperial to metric .... I was only 3 :ashamed:

 

[Besoeker]

Probably ..... it was devised in the 1940s .... so I guess it would...... alas I post-date the change from imperial to metric .... I was only 3 :ashamed:

OK. I'm an old phart.

 

[kwired]

The ring is wired in 2.5mm sq twin & earth. This is rated at 21 - 24A depending on its installation method. It will be supply an unlimited number of 13A sockets & will be fed from a 32A MCB. So, yes it does rely on the parallel runs to achieve the required ampacity but, as I explained in my post #33 a few pages back, even if one leg does become open circuit its rarely a problem in reality (although it is a problem 'on paper'). It was devised as a economy method to reduce cable lengths & not from a reduce volt drop standpoint.

Adrian

How does it reduce cable length?

If you had a run that is say 100 feet out, has two to ten outlets in the vicinity then have to run around 100 feet back, I think I would rather just see a larger single set of conductors for voltage drop reasons than have to run two sets of conductors. Plus in your location you don't have 120 volts so voltage drop doesn't become as much of a problem as it can become here for most general purpose usage types of circuits.

 

[fifty60]

So if my equipment draws 12A, then it is permissible to plug it into a 13A outlet. I suppose that makes sense. Similarly, are there any US regulations that put an amp limit on what you can plug into a 15 or 20A outlet?

The UK guys are pushing back on the Schuko style plug and want a ceeform plug because they are readily available in the UK and also available on the mainland.

The plug has to serve as a disconnect for the equipment, but it is not an "emergency stop". I would be more confident with the Ceeform disconnecting the equipment under full load. But the standard plug should not have to be able to disconnect a product under load right? Normal chords (Schuko, and the 13A UK plugs) should only be used as a service disconnect only? The equipment has two fractional .33HP compressors and about 1000W of heat....

 

[AdrianWint]

How does it reduce cable length?

If you had a run that is say 100 feet out, has two to ten outlets in the vicinity then have to run around 100 feet back, I think I would rather just see a larger single set of conductors for voltage drop reasons than have to run two sets of conductors. Plus in your location you don't have 120 volts so voltage drop doesn't become as much of a problem as it can become here for most general purpose usage types of circuits.

Think more along the lines of one ring final running around the entire residence visiting every outlet. Contrast this with running each outlet as a home run (as was done in the days before the ring final). I think this is the logic that its designers followed.

There is a permissible radial configuration that uses 4.0mm sq twin & earth on a 32A MCB. This is often implemented as a means to support things such as a laundry circuit or a kitchen. I don't think I've ever come across a hole house wired using one or more of these.

Its true that with our 230V supply you don't have to pay so much attention to volt drop & if the electrician sticks to 'standard' circuits then he can be confident of achieving his required 3% VD without really putting any thought into it.

Most ring finals are very lightly loaded. The capacity of a healthy ring is 32A * 230V = 7360 VA. With the current cost of domestic electricity in the UK being around 0.15 UK pounds per kw/h .... using the full capacity of the ring will set you back just over 1 UK pound per hour - I can't afford that..... its rare that my whole house draws more than 7kW never mind just the socket outlets! (We don't have domestic air-con & we tend to heat our homes using natural gas fired wet (water in iron radiators) central heating systems)

Adrian