Brewery Installation

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Brad Batty

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Location
Plattsburgh, NY, USA
Gearing up for an electrical installation in a new brewery that is attached to an existing restaurant. I'm interested in running exposed conduit. I would like to use PVC but believe that I'm not allowed to due to the potential occupancy of the entire facility. There is going to be exposure to water/steam as well as corrosive cleaning agents. Can I use PVC or do I have to go with PVC coated RGC or aluminum conduit?
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Building Classification will tell you some info. Generally PVC is not allowed in commercial areas but I would check with the building dept and see what class the building will be.

Not sure but all the breweries I have seen have been emt. What corrosives are there?
 
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Brad Batty

Member
Location
Plattsburgh, NY, USA
I'm not sure what the corrosive cleaning agents are. It was expressed to me by the Brewer that he would be using them so I was thinking I'd like to provide a job that would be resistant to rusting.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
Not sure really but my son works in a microbrewery in Asheville, NC and if I remember correctly it is most done with emt.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
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Brad Batty said:
Gearing up for an electrical installation in a new brewery that is attached to an existing restaurant. I'm interested in running exposed conduit. I would like to use PVC but believe that I'm not allowed to due to the potential occupancy of the entire facility. There is going to be exposure to water/steam as well as corrosive cleaning agents. Can I use PVC or do I have to go with PVC coated RGC or aluminum conduit?
Click to expand...

i've done two microbreweries..... you have two choices, really,
and aluminum rigid conduit i've never been allowed to use....

it was ocal, or stainless schedule 40 for both of them... and
ocal is the price leader. i have been allowed to use aluminum
unistrut instead of stainless, but all the hardware needed to be
stainless.

also, in the washdown and food prep areas, usually you can't use
strut at all, as it is a food trap. as many nooks and crannies as an
english muffin. i usually use SS minnies tigged onto a piece of 3/8"
bare stainless rod for a standoff, or tigged directly to the equipment.
if you use square stock, horizontal pieces should be at 45 degree angle
so washdown doesn't leave anything on the surface.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Fulthrotl said:
i've done two microbreweries..... you have two choices, really,
and aluminum rigid conduit i've never been allowed to use....

it was ocal, or stainless schedule 40 for both of them... and
ocal is the price leader. i have been allowed to use aluminum
unistrut instead of stainless, but all the hardware needed to be
stainless.

also, in the washdown and food prep areas, usually you can't use
strut at all, as it is a food trap. as many nooks and crannies as an
english muffin. i usually use SS minnies tigged onto a piece of 3/8"
bare stainless rod for a standoff, or tigged directly to the equipment.
if you use square stock, horizontal pieces should be at 45 degree angle
so washdown doesn't leave anything on the surface.
Click to expand...


This was mandated by whom?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The brewery is likely in a separate area and is not a part of the place of assembly (the dining area of the restaurant), and very well may not be allowed to be part of the same area by other codes, both building and health/foodservice codes.


Details of what goes on in this brewery may vary but could be as severe as washing "everything" inside and out on a regular basis. Caustic or acids for cleaning would not be out of the question and if they are splashed around you will want non metallic or stainless equipment.

Ferrous equipment will corrode away if subject to much of that kind of activity and especially those kinds of cleaning agents, and any inspection agency for the product they are making may have some input on what they will allow also. Anything that can rust and flake away is generally not a good thing should it get into the product being made and is usually not something the owner will want to have to deal with. This kind of inspection though is more strict in the meat and dairy industries than most other food industries.
 
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Brad Batty

Member
Location
Plattsburgh, NY, USA
I visited another brewery in the area and found both EMT and PVC used. Wasn't to impressed with the install. Shotty workmanship. Anyway I don't want to use that as a reference. I contacted an electrical inspector and he said to stay away from the PVC because of the "gray" area with the brewery being attached to the existing restaurant but not open to the public. Ultimately these owners are friends of mine and I'm looking to provide them with the least expensive, long-lasting and code accepted job.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Brad Batty said:
I visited another brewery in the area and found both EMT and PVC used. Wasn't to impressed with the install. Shotty workmanship. Anyway I don't want to use that as a reference. I contacted an electrical inspector and he said to stay away from the PVC because of the "gray" area with the brewery being attached to the existing restaurant but not open to the public. Ultimately these owners are friends of mine and I'm looking to provide them with the least expensive, long-lasting and code accepted job.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter if it is attached, the brewery itself is not a place of assembly, unless they regularly bring 100+ people in there for some reason. The restaurant dining area likely is, but that is probably the only space in the entire facility that is a place of assembly.

Look at large hotels and convention centers. You can easily have areas in those places that are not wired to art 518 that are right next to an area that is wired to 518, or for that matter have several areas that have some chapter 5 condition that applies to them right next to other areas not covered by any chapter 5 topics. Often building codes may also have finish requirements between such areas to help separate the effects of one environment on other areas, giving them even more separation from one another.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I agree with kwire. The place of assembly can only be for one room in a building or many rooms if they meet the requirement for place of assembly
 
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Brad Batty

Member
Location
Plattsburgh, NY, USA
kwired said:
Doesn't matter if it is attached, the brewery itself is not a place of assembly, unless they regularly bring 100+ people in there for some reason. The restaurant dining area likely is, but that is probably the only space in the entire facility that is a place of assembly.

Look at large hotels and convention centers. You can easily have areas in those places that are not wired to art 518 that are right next to an area that is wired to 518, or for that matter have several areas that have some chapter 5 condition that applies to them right next to other areas not covered by any chapter 5 topics. Often building codes may also have finish requirements between such areas to help separate the effects of one environment on other areas, giving them even more separation from one another.
Click to expand...


Thank you for steering me to art 518. I agree regarding the assembly and different locations within the same structure. Very clear now. So I'm thinking I would be allowed to use PVC.
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Isn't there some drawings for this, what do they present or is this moonlight brewing? :D

There was another thread on this same subject a month + ago.
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
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Brad Batty

Member
Location
Plattsburgh, NY, USA
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
mgookin said:
Is the brewery subject to FDA or USDa standards as food & beverage manufacturing? Not sure how big it is or what volume they produce there.
Click to expand...

Even FDA or USDA standards will vary from one food or beverage product to other products. Like I said earlier meat and dairy products seem to get hit with some of the strictest standards. I'm most familiar with dairy industry practices and you can have a big difference in operating requirements just from going from grade A products to grade B products. Then sometimes you have third party inspectors that are inspecting you for companies you sell product to, and they are often harder to comply with their requirements than FDA or USDA as those requirements are just the foundation that their inspections are based on.
 
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