Distance from Hazardous Equipment.

[Geneapi]

I have been told to install a security system in a Class 1 Div 2 storage room, and was instructed my the facility engineer that I could install the wiring (non-Exp) as long as it was 10 ft away in each direction from any of the equipment, barrels or Totes, however the room contains quite a few containers (totes) and barrels (55 Gal) and some are open to the air in the room and 2 dispenser machines that transfer solvents to a temporary open drum/tote for processing, there is no forced ventilation, I believe that the entire area is considered and open container because of this, and should treat the entire area from floor to ceiling as one Classification and requiring Ex piping and fittings. Can anyone tell me if there is an exception to this rule and allows for non-ex wiring at any distance from these containers/equipment ?

 

[petersonra]

what rule do you think you would need an exception for?

if the whole room is C1D2 there is no exception.

I would point out that just wiring in a C1D2 area might not be much of an issue regardless of how close it gets to equipment.

 

[Geneapi]

what rule do you think you would need an exception for?

if the whole room is C1D2 there is no exception.

I would point out that just wiring in a C1D2 area might not be much of an issue regardless of how close it gets to equipment.

I guess what I am concerned about is that the Camera is non-Ex and the wiring they want me to use is non-shielded pre-made with RJ45 type connectors. I can put the wiring in conduit but not the camera but the engineer says that is ok as long as it is 10 ft away from any hazardous equipment it is ok, but I believe the entire room not just 10 ft away in all directions is C1D2 therefore we would need Ex-cameras. He seems to be convinced that here is a rule about it and it is ok, also states that same 10 ft rule in a " Process Hazard Analysis" that he have requested by a consulting Company. Not sure how to handle this issue.

 

[Smart $]

Chances are, the entire room is C1D2.

In C1D2 you are not as limited as C1D1.

Explosionproof boxes and fittings are only subject to 501.105(B)(1), 501.115(B)(1), and 501.150(B)(1). See 501.10(B)

Look into non-incendive or intrinsically-safe methods.

 

[GoldDigger]

How about just putting the camera and modular connection into a box with a window?

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[Geneapi]

How about just putting the camera and modular connection into a box with a window?

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The problem with that is the IR's in the camera will reflect of any glass and cause the field of view to vanish, so that is not an option, but thanks for your reply.

 

[Smart $]

The problem with that is the IR's in the camera will reflect of any glass and cause the field of view to vanish, so that is not an option, but thanks for your reply.

Camera make and model?

OP says security system. Any other equipment located in room?

 

[petersonra]

A fair number of cameras that are not TZP are listed as suitable for use in C1D2 areas.

 

[rbalex]

I have been told to install a security system in a Class 1 Div 2 storage room, and was instructed my the facility engineer that I could install the wiring (non-Exp) as long as it was 10 ft away in each direction from any of the equipment, barrels or Totes, however the room contains quite a few containers (totes) and barrels (55 Gal) and some are open to the air in the room and 2 dispenser machines that transfer solvents to a temporary open drum/tote for processing, there is no forced ventilation, I believe that the entire area is considered and open container because of this, and should treat the entire area from floor to ceiling as one Classification and requiring Ex piping and fittings. Can anyone tell me if there is an exception to this rule and allows for non-ex wiring at any distance from these containers/equipment ?

You have done a fair job describing the installation except the dimensions of the room. Assuming you can actually maintain 10' from everything, it would seem to be a healthy sized room.

There also seems to be a violation of Section 500.4(A). Unfortunately, everyone (myself included) is forced to speculate without properly documented electrical classification. That said, as you suspect and several others have commented, the entire room is likely to be Class I, Division 2 as a minimum and, without proper ventilation, the area around the material transfers is Division 1.

A suitable nonincendive or intrinsically safe installation will depend on the power requirements of the camera. As also mentioned, there are cameras that are suitable for Division 2.

 

[Geneapi]

You have done a fair job describing the installation except the dimensions of the room. Assuming you can actually maintain 10' from everything, it would seem to be a healthy sized room.

There also seems to be a violation of Section 500.4(A). Unfortunately, everyone (myself included) is forced to speculate without properly documented electrical classification. That said, as you suspect and several others have commented, the entire room is likely to be Class I, Division 2 as a minimum and, without proper ventilation, the area around the material transfers is Division 1.

A suitable nonincendive or intrinsically safe installation will depend on the power requirements of the camera. As also mentioned, there are cameras that are suitable for Division 2.

First I would like to say thanks to all for your input it is much appreciated.

As for the room size it is 100 ft X 100 Ft x 21ft high. ventilation is basic window and door openings, however the room next to it is a C1D1 with roof and ceiling exhaust fans which tends to draw air from the C1D2 room thru open transfer doors therefore creating a somewhat negative condition in room, and pulling outside air in as an afterthought, no real exhaust equipment. Also manager feels that the cameras that are nonincendive or Intrinsically safe is an overkill and expensive cost since his HAZOP analalysis says " Electrical Classification is defined as within 10 feet of the ground or equipment"

 

[petersonra]

First I would like to say thanks to all for your input it is much appreciated.

As for the room size it is 100 ft X 100 Ft x 21ft high. ventilation is basic window and door openings, however the room next to it is a C1D1 with roof and ceiling exhaust fans which tends to draw air from the C1D2 room thru open transfer doors therefore creating a somewhat negative condition in room, and pulling outside air in as an afterthought, no real exhaust equipment. Also manager feels that the cameras that are nonincendive or Intrinsically safe is an overkill and expensive cost since his HAZOP analalysis says " Electrical Classification is defined as within 10 feet of the ground or equipment"

I don't know what this statement means. Is he saying the C1D2 classification only extends to 10 feet above floor level? That might be possible. I would want some backup beyond him just saying it though.

 

[Smart $]

... Also manager feels that the cameras that are nonincendive or Intrinsically safe is an overkill and expensive cost since his HAZOP analalysis says " Electrical Classification is defined as within 10 feet of the ground or equipment"

I, too, do not understand this statement.

Bob (rbalex) pointed to 500.4 earlier. Here is the first part...

500.4 General.

(A) Documentation. All areas designated as hazardous
(classified) locations shall be properly documented. This
documentation shall be available to those authorized to
design, install, inspect, maintain, or operate electrical
equipment at the location.

(B) Reference Standards. Important information...

If this analysis is official documentation, it will use the same hazardous location terminology as used in the NEC.

 

[Geneapi]

I don't know what this statement means. Is he saying the C1D2 classification only extends to 10 feet above floor level? That might be possible. I would want some backup beyond him just saying it though.

I agree and have been it touch with the PE who authored the HazOP analysis other wise I am goint to treat the entire room as C1D2 and use Ex-cameras.

Thanks to everyone for your input.