UL, CSA, AND IEC STANDARDS
- Thread starter fifty60
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mgookin
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Myers, FL
I always thought UL standards were derived from insurance claims.
"Underwriter's" Laboratories.
"Underwriter's" Laboratories.
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
- Occupation
- Professional Electrical Engineer
UL is much older than IEC. CSA and UL do a pretty good job of coordinating their North American standards. Canada has adopted several IEC standards. Ever since ISA became the US representative for many IEC technical committees, UL has promulgated several IEC standards especially in connectors, instrumentation and classified locations.
- Location
- Wisconsin
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- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
According to a Schneider Electric FAQ site:
http://www.schneider-electric.co.in...&country=IN&lang=EN&id=FA176723&redirect=true
The IEC (International Electrotechnical Commission) and UL (Underwriters Laboratories Inc.) standards differ significantly.
IEC standards specify the minimum device safety requirements.
UL standards, in contrast, specify comprehensive technical details in terms of product safety and application.
The IEC and UL organizations also differ greatly in terms of their general approach.
In addition to standards development, the UL is also responsible for certification (general third-party certification) as well as field acceptance.
http://www.schneider-electric.co.in...&country=IN&lang=EN&id=FA176723&redirect=true
The IEC (International Electrotechnical Commission) and UL (Underwriters Laboratories Inc.) standards differ significantly.
IEC standards specify the minimum device safety requirements.
UL standards, in contrast, specify comprehensive technical details in terms of product safety and application.
The IEC and UL organizations also differ greatly in terms of their general approach.
In addition to standards development, the UL is also responsible for certification (general third-party certification) as well as field acceptance.
Do you think tests done to UL standards for a product would meet or exceed the equivalent IEC standards for the same product? I know I may catch some flak for such a general question, but I am trying to understand if that, in general, UL certification would encompass (meet or exceed) tests required by IEC.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
No, because they are different requirements.
having said that, UL508 will be replaced sometime in the near future with a new standard for US control equipment also meets international standards.
as it is now, a lot of stuff that is UL listed also meets IEC standards and vice versa but not all do.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
call UL and give them your credit card number. they will be happy to send them to you.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Do you work for free? Why should they?
Yeah, you are right. The particular standard I am working on states that you can use a component "A) if it meets Applicable IEC Standards B)Meets standards that are equal to or exceeding the IEC standards, even if they are non IEC standards, as long as they have a recognized listing"
There is a C) and a D) and a E) as well, but B is what I am most interested in. To me, it is intentionally vague. There are not standards to quantify "equal to or exceeding", just the wording "equal to or exceeding". For this reason, it is ok to substitute UL and CSA approvals for the IEC standards. As long as the listing is relevent. For example, a circuit breaker has several possible UL listings, you would still have to choose the appropriate one for the application.
B) is certainly vague, intentionally so in my opinion.
There is a C) and a D) and a E) as well, but B is what I am most interested in. To me, it is intentionally vague. There are not standards to quantify "equal to or exceeding", just the wording "equal to or exceeding". For this reason, it is ok to substitute UL and CSA approvals for the IEC standards. As long as the listing is relevent. For example, a circuit breaker has several possible UL listings, you would still have to choose the appropriate one for the application.
B) is certainly vague, intentionally so in my opinion.
to quote a previous helpful post on another forum by another forum member:
"As a side note, IEC standards are primarily based on manufacturers building their equipment anyway they want, and it be capable of passing the required tests. Conversely, IEEE standards are based on manufacturers building there equipment a certain way which means it will meet the requirements. Different philosophies. I will say, in general, IEC manufactured equipment comes across as not as heavy duty."
"As a side note, IEC standards are primarily based on manufacturers building their equipment anyway they want, and it be capable of passing the required tests. Conversely, IEEE standards are based on manufacturers building there equipment a certain way which means it will meet the requirements. Different philosophies. I will say, in general, IEC manufactured equipment comes across as not as heavy duty."
fmtjfw
Senior Member
- Location
- Fairmont, WV, USA
Taking Motor Starters as an instance, it is my understanding that NEMA motor starters are much more rugged than IEC because:
1) Manufacturers -- especially car manufacturers -- beat the snot out of motor starters and may change the load without resizing the starter.
2) In Europe they had more engineers laying around so there was more design work in choosing a starter --- to keep the engineers busy -- than in the US, where the contractor may walk into the distributor and say "give me a motor starter for a 7? HP motor. Think of "definite purpose" contactors in the US.
1) Manufacturers -- especially car manufacturers -- beat the snot out of motor starters and may change the load without resizing the starter.
2) In Europe they had more engineers laying around so there was more design work in choosing a starter --- to keep the engineers busy -- than in the US, where the contractor may walk into the distributor and say "give me a motor starter for a 7? HP motor. Think of "definite purpose" contactors in the US.
Yes, intentionally vague. Even standards committees have to occasionally allow a degree of reasonable flexibility. Who knew?
The UL STP's usually have manufacturers as ~30% of the membership.
Does the standard you are have a list of normative references? IEC standards have them in the front, UL in the appendices. Might be a good quick start.
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
The organizations are entirely separate, and may write their respective standards any way that they wish.
UL, in particular, is a private company, and has no obligation to pay the slightest heed to what anyone else does.
Moreover, each of the groups you name has a different purpose from the others. They serve different customers, often for different reasons.
UL, in particular, is a private company, and has no obligation to pay the slightest heed to what anyone else does.
Moreover, each of the groups you name has a different purpose from the others. They serve different customers, often for different reasons.
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