Always interesting what you'll find along the way...

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RLyons

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Kitchen reno where this oopsie was found and not sure how long it was like this before we found it.


Second is locating panels to shut off circuits for a commercial job. How many violations does this cover?


Third was today rewiring a bunch of hotel PTAC's today that maintenance performed wired for 277v :happysad:
There where multiple units wired like this (some did have tape :roll:) and how nothing happened?

So we added plugs and new whips but my question is being a hotel is this the correct/safe way to do this?
A unattended child could easily pull the plug out partially and touch a prong, no? Wouldn't a hardwired junction box be a safer option?

 
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I think they use the cord and plug connection on the unit to provide the required within sight disconnect.
 
RLyons said:
Sure was. They where complaining of breakers sparking in the old Westinghouse 480/277 panel. They changed the breakers and didn't put in the rear breaker screws so put cardboard between them to hold them in!
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Romex for 277 I don't think I have ever seen that.
 
Many years ago I found one like the first picture. This guy was pressure washing the wood siding of an old house. Kept getting shocked in this one spot. I checked several nails until I found that one was 120 VAC to ground. Went in the kitchen and abandoned that piece of romex and rerouted the cable from the basement.

Thinking back I guess the kitchen counter was not GFCI protected or at least that part of the circuit was not.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I think they use the cord and plug connection on the unit to provide the required within sight disconnect.
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I know the disconnect within sight rule but with 208+ voltages where its possible for someone (small child) to pull the plug and inadvertently touch a hot prong and a grounded metal box just doesn't seem like a logical code in this case.

Another question I'd like to ask for the same hotel is what are there any special rules for locating 480v panels and equipment say in a commercial kitchen or in easily accessible locations? I saw a 480v dishwasher heater unit located directly under the washer unit which to me doesn't seem smart, and no neutral and ground provided by pipe to sealtight...is this common practice?
 
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Regarding the PTAC unit, the OP mentioned putting cord sets and receps. 440.60 does not allow cord and plug connected units above 250 volts. It must be a chapter 3 wiring method.
 
texie said:
Regarding the PTAC unit, the OP mentioned putting cord sets and receps. 440.60 does not allow cord and plug connected units above 250 volts. It must be a chapter 3 wiring method.
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Good point, I missed that section, but after reading the section, I am still not sure what it is saying.
440.60 General
The provisions of Part VII shall apply to electrically energized room air conditioners that control temperature and humidity. For the purpose of Part VII, a room air conditioner (with or without provisions for heating) shall be considered as an ac appliance of the air-cooled window, console, or in-wall type that is installed in the conditioned room and that incorporates a hermetic refrigerant motor-compressor(s). The provisions of Part VII cover equipment rated not over 250 volts, single phase, and the equipment shall be permitted to be cord- and attachment-plug-connected. A room air conditioner that is rated 3-phase or rated over 250 volts shall be directly connected to a wiring method recognized in Chapter 3, and provisions of Part VII shall not apply.
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If the equipment is an "ac appliance" does Article 440 still apply?
 
RLyons said:
is <250V that much safer?
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On a lot of levels, including breaking down skin resistance, arc length and creep path length, 120 is a lot safer than 480 or 600, and you have to draw the line somewhere. Since 240 line-to-line is commonly available in residential, I guess they just chose to draw the line at 250.
 
GoldDigger said:
On a lot of levels, including breaking down skin resistance, arc length and creep path length, 120 is a lot safer than 480 or 600, and you have to draw the line somewhere. Since 240 line-to-line is commonly available in residential, I guess they just chose to draw the line at 250.
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I can't help but add a little humor here. Before you messed with the PTAC's they did not violate 440.60. Maybe a million other violations but not 440.60.:)
 
I fail to see the prong that a child could touch after "pulling out" a plug. I only see wirenuts from Romex to where they cut the cord cap off.
 
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