Reliable Mini Power Source

[dema]

I need to back up FAA required signal lights on a smoke stack. My total power draw is 800-1000W. That is total for the whole system. Right now this smoke stack is in the middle of nowhere with no utility power available. The thought was to provide a generator, but these requirements are so small perhaps we should get some mice on wheels. Anybody know about FAA approval for that?

What do you recommend as a safe power source for a system this small. I thought of adding a UPS, but the controllers do not require a heat source. I could specify a 1KVA UPS in a cabinet with a heater and fan. But I have to have some sort of power generation. Ideas?

I will need this solution for 10 months or so. The utility power is scheduled to arrive to the vicinity at that time, but the smoke stack exists now. Thank you.

(People keep asking me the weirdest things.)

 

[iceworm]

I need to back up FAA required signal lights on a smoke stack. My total power draw is 800-1000W. That is total for the whole system. Right now this smoke stack is in the middle of nowhere with no utility power available. The thought was to provide a generator, but these requirements are so small perhaps we should get some mice on wheels. Anybody know about FAA approval for that?

What do you recommend as a safe power source for a system this small. I thought of adding a UPS, but the controllers do not require a heat source. I could specify a 1KVA UPS in a cabinet with a heater and fan. But I have to have some sort of power generation. Ideas?

I will need this solution for 10 months or so. The utility power is scheduled to arrive to the vicinity at that time, but the smoke stack exists now. Thank you.

(People keep asking me the weirdest things.)

I have done several of these types of installations. They were all expensive. The operational cost were high - someone is always out there, changing oil, fueling, fixing. I have tried a bunch of different things. none great, only a few were up to mediocre. However, here are some design questions I'd be asking:

How reliable does it have to be?
Can you have an attendent go out every day?
Night only or day and night?
Telephone - POTS, cell, sat (for alarms)?

Some random thoughts:
Solar, wind, (with batteries and inverter) still need a backup if your reliability has to be high. Installed cost is really high
Thermoelectric generation - efficiency is really low, installed cost is really high
DF generation - installed cost is low. The smallest I've seen with a pressure oiling system is 10kw. Someone is out there every week changing oil.

Added note: What is the budget?

Interesting project. Let us know how it comes out

ice

 

[mgookin]

If it's FAA regulations you're needing to comply with, I suggest calling the closest airport to the project and ask for their aviation planner. That person will be working with a regional FAA office.

I'd shoot for solar first. Just like the coast guard does on channel markers. But it's not my call as to what they'll allow.

You're saying you need to "back up" the system. What is the primary power today? Maybe I'm not understanding your situation.

 

[dema]

No Primary Power

No Primary Power

There is no primary power. That is the problem. I have 400W of need. And no source.

 

[kingpb]

This may be a dumb question - If it's there now, what was powering the lights before, or is this something that was built without proper lighting and its just now the FAA is telling you it should have had lights?

I would say based on what information has been provided; you will need a small DEG, solar panels, and a battery bank, that way you can supplement solar with gen back-up, but are not running the generator all the time.

This won't be cheap, but improper planning never is.

 

[GoldDigger]

If you go solar, you will need on the rough order of 4kW worth of panels and 1000 amp-hours worth of batteries at 48 volts. This will allow for short sun time in winter and three or four consecutive stormy days. The batteries will need to be replaced as often as every five years (assuming you use AGM batteries to allow fast recharging.
And then you will also need an autostart generator for backup and for battery charging in bad weather. You would have to compare the cost to that of a small continuously running generator (or fuel cell!) with batteries for backup.


Tapatalk!

 

[dema]

Thank you

Thank you

Always appreciate all of your input.

 

[plumb bob]

What produces the smoke coming out of the stack ? Perhaps a solution can be found there.

 

[GoldDigger]

Or is it part of an abandoned site that is too expensive to tear down?

Tapatalk!

 

[dereckbc]

My total power draw is 800-1000W.

That is no small system for something like Solar. The important question to ask is how many watt hours will be required in a 24 hour period. If you are talking 20 Kwh/day for solar is going to cost $60K or more, plus the joy of replacing $25K to $35K worth of batteries every few years. You would be looking at 5000 to 10,000 watt solar panel install.

 

[iceworm]

Uhhhh... guys -
It's a 10 month project. after that anything that went is salvage. It is important to keep the installed cost down.

That is one of the things that makes these jobs so expensive.

ice

 

[broadgage]

I would consider at least 2 relatively small diesel generators, with automatic changeover if one fails.
3 would give greater reliability.
Visit every few days to refuel and check on the equipment.

Such machines have many uses and should have other uses or potential for sale when the job is over.

Alternatives are generators that burn propane, with a fairly small engine and a couple of large propane tanks, run times of over a week are achieved. Still need a spare though in case of failure.

Manual changover is simpler but needs battery back up to keep the lights lit until someone can arrive to changeover.

Could the load be reduced by use of LED lamps or beacons ? this would make solar or wind power more viable. Red LEDs are very efficient, unlike white incandescents behind red filters.

 

[Sahib]

Just out of curiosity:
What is the penalty from FAA if the work done only after POCO supply arrived?

 

[dema]

Temporary Installation

Temporary Installation

They are building a facility. For some reason unknown to me, they decided to build the smoke stack a year before the rest of the facility. So my solution is temporary. I need to provide 400W by day and 300W by night for 10 months or so.

I priced a generator installation. Trouble is that a reliable diesel starts at 20KW and the low load would cause wetstacking. Rental is $1200 a month. Cost of fuel is $10/hr. And then there would be the cost of bringing in a load bank and blowing the gunk out of it every 2-3 months. I stopped counting dollars at $70K. Figured solar is less and certainly a lot more environmentally friendly. Smaller units wouldn't have fuel delivery and wouldn't hold but 6 hours or so worth of fuel. Propane might give marginal advantage. Solar still seems better. Also considered using a generator to charge batteries. Still seems like solar is better. Thank you again.

 

[GoldDigger]

They are building a facility. For some reason unknown to me, they decided to build the smoke stack a year before the rest of the facility. So my solution is temporary. I need to provide 400W by day and 300W by night for 10 months or so.

Look into a propane fed fuel cell plus battery. Maybe two to get the power you need.

Expensive for the power it delivers, but the very low maintenance and zero noise may make up for that.

 

[dema]

That's a new thought

That's a new thought

I'll look into it.

 

[kingpb]

Then why not solar with batteries. Make sure you use LED stack lights.

 

[GoldDigger]

The issue is what might be required for backup of the solar plus batteries in case of a stretch of bad weather. An autostart generator?
Another set of batteries?
Unless there will be other site work going on, the cost of check and maintenance visits will be high.

Tapatalk!

 

[texie]

I need to back up FAA required signal lights on a smoke stack. My total power draw is 800-1000W. That is total for the whole system. Right now this smoke stack is in the middle of nowhere with no utility power available. The thought was to provide a generator, but these requirements are so small perhaps we should get some mice on wheels. Anybody know about FAA approval for that?

What do you recommend as a safe power source for a system this small. I thought of adding a UPS, but the controllers do not require a heat source. I could specify a 1KVA UPS in a cabinet with a heater and fan. But I have to have some sort of power generation. Ideas?

I will need this solution for 10 months or so. The utility power is scheduled to arrive to the vicinity at that time, but the smoke stack exists now. Thank you.

(People keep asking me the weirdest things.)

You might want to talk to these guys: http://www.polardcmarine.com/polarpower/

This kind of stuff is what they do. While I have not used them, we did have discussions with them about a job that never materialized.

 

[mgookin]

Instead of buying something temporary, can you look forward to the final design and buy that standby system now? Seems you'd be spending money early and maybe buying a bigger than otherwise fuel tank.