FIRE PUMP CONTROLLER OUTDOOR

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RICHRICKA

Member
Location
miami
is there any restrictions for a fire pump / motor controller outdoors?
this is a firm with no buildings, just a propane tank needed to be protected by a fire pump.... ...

there is pad mounted transformer, can it be directly connected from the utility transformer to a motor controller without a disconnect?

how to support that controller outdoor? h-frame? concrete pad?

don't we need at least 12" clearance from the bottom?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Just curious as to exactly what this pump will be supplying?

Pumping water on a fire supplied by propane likely does little to extinguish the fire, unless you really get some massive volume of water in relation to the available fuel.

Now after an incident in the area in recent years, where a fire developed and was burning leaking fuel at the base of the tank out of a damaged or malfunctioning pipeline fitting/component, the growing concern at this scene was how much more heat the tank would be able to take before the tank itself was weakened enough to cause a major event to happen. There was pretty much no chance of putting the fire out - the fuel needed to be cut off. After this thing burned for at least 3 or 4 hours firefighters finally sent one man in to shut off a supply valve and gave him a pretty heavy shower of water while performing that task. Once the valve was closed the incident was essentially over. They had been working on evacuation of a large area of that city because they were not sure just how big of an explosion may occur if that tank wall failed, later investigation did reveal that the tank wall was compromised and needed repairs.

Now that I got that out of the way - A fire pump supplied by utility power still needs a service disconnecting means supplied by either a separate service or tapped to the supply side of the other service disconnecting means and it can not be in the same cabinet, enclosure or vertical switchboard section as the regular service disconnecting means - chances are it will be integral to the fire pump controller in many cases though. It would still need to be isolated from the regular facility service disconnecting means just like it would need to be inside a building - the idea is to minimize the possibility of accidentally turning off the fire pump disconnect when disconnecting the regular power service disconnecting means.

It can come directly from the transformer, you have many possibilities of how to support it, and the physical size of the controller will have some impact on how that may be done. Not sure about why you mention the 12 inch clearance from the bottom, it could be an installation instruction to specific units, but I don't think is a code requirement otherwise.
 

RICHRICKA

Member
Location
miami
this is farm.... to grow fruits, that has a propane tank to do a special process (don't know which), due to this tank they require a fire sprinkler system on the tents (there are no building on this farm)...... since there are no building, I assume that the pump and controller can be installed outdoors.

there is a section in the code that requires the controller to be installed at least 12 inches from the floor to avoid flooding of the pump stopping the controller's work. (but since this is outdoor, how will that work? from the flood elevation of the zone?



Just curious as to exactly what this pump will be supplying?

Pumping water on a fire supplied by propane likely does little to extinguish the fire, unless you really get some massive volume of water in relation to the available fuel.

Now after an incident in the area in recent years, where a fire developed and was burning leaking fuel at the base of the tank out of a damaged or malfunctioning pipeline fitting/component, the growing concern at this scene was how much more heat the tank would be able to take before the tank itself was weakened enough to cause a major event to happen. There was pretty much no chance of putting the fire out - the fuel needed to be cut off. After this thing burned for at least 3 or 4 hours firefighters finally sent one man in to shut off a supply valve and gave him a pretty heavy shower of water while performing that task. Once the valve was closed the incident was essentially over. They had been working on evacuation of a large area of that city because they were not sure just how big of an explosion may occur if that tank wall failed, later investigation did reveal that the tank wall was compromised and needed repairs.

Now that I got that out of the way - A fire pump supplied by utility power still needs a service disconnecting means supplied by either a separate service or tapped to the supply side of the other service disconnecting means and it can not be in the same cabinet, enclosure or vertical switchboard section as the regular service disconnecting means - chances are it will be integral to the fire pump controller in many cases though. It would still need to be isolated from the regular facility service disconnecting means just like it would need to be inside a building - the idea is to minimize the possibility of accidentally turning off the fire pump disconnect when disconnecting the regular power service disconnecting means.

It can come directly from the transformer, you have many possibilities of how to support it, and the physical size of the controller will have some impact on how that may be done. Not sure about why you mention the 12 inch clearance from the bottom, it could be an installation instruction to specific units, but I don't think is a code requirement otherwise.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
I am highly doubtful you will find a fire pump controller that's listed for outdoor installation, especially if you may encounter freezing conditions. Nor are you likely to find a fire pump similarly listed. What are the minimum temperatures likely for this location?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I am highly doubtful you will find a fire pump controller that's listed for outdoor installation, especially if you may encounter freezing conditions. Nor are you likely to find a fire pump similarly listed. What are the minimum temperatures likely for this location?
His location says Miami, but I suppose could be Miami OH, it probably gets pretty cold there:)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
kwired: FYI 695.12(D)
Thanks, I don't do a lot of fire pumps.

I can't see why one couldn't be outdoors though it is probably rare.

I am also having a little bit of a hard time envisioning the OP's installation, with a propane tank and some tents. I would think these tents would need to be similar distance from the tank as any other building would normally be required. Fire suppression in the tents could still be an issue but don't know what it should have to do with the presence of the tank
 
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