Exhaust Fan required?

[GerryB]

I have a small commercial space with a handicap bath and a regular bath, just a toilet and sink. The ceiling is exposed concrete. The owner bought two ductless fans. Are these acceptable, are fans even required? Also the last HC bath I did the inspector wanted an emergency light in there so I put one in this bath but is that required? Thanks

 

[ActionDave]

My personal opinion is anywhere there is a toilet there should be an an exhaust fan. The NEC has not evolved enough to see it fit to include such in their requirements.

In regards to your inspector requiring an emergency light; why? Wouldn't an emergency call button be more helpful?

 

[elf friend]

Not sure about where you are but here in Wisconsin if it is classified as a bathroom by the NEC it needs an exhaust fan. Not sure about e-lights but if you inspector says you need them then you do.

 

[mgookin]

Your fan must exhuast to the outside.
The emergency light is required if it is a windowless room.

 

[kwired]

I have a small commercial space with a handicap bath and a regular bath, just a toilet and sink. The ceiling is exposed concrete. The owner bought two ductless fans. Are these acceptable, are fans even required? Also the last HC bath I did the inspector wanted an emergency light in there so I put one in this bath but is that required? Thanks

Both the need for the fan and the need for an emergency light are not NEC issues, they would be issues from other building codes.

In dwelling bathrooms many people think an exhaust fan is needed for removing stink bombs, reality is they may help with that concern, but they are really intended for removing humidity from showers and baths. I honestly don't know why they would need to be required for a bath with no tub or shower in any occupancy other than if desired for removing effects of stink bombs, if the bomb is not removed the fan really isn't going to get rid of the effects.

Ductless fans? Why not make people bring in their own pocket sized battery operated personal fan? It will do about the same thing, which is stir the air a little, plus it may actually provide more direct cooling effects to the user if they could use cooling off:roll:

The only ductless fan that is worth anything IMO is one with electronic air cleaner cells, but you do have to clean the cells and any other filters on a regular basis, and I have never seen one in a bathroom either. With most places not allowing smoking inside anymore even those are becoming less popular.

 

[mwm1752]

Yes, mechanical exhaust is required -- emergency lighting is required only for the egress path which is generally not inside single entrance rooms adjoining the path, I would recommend a light.
2009 IBC 1203.4.2.1 Bathrooms. Rooms containing bathtubs, showers, spas and similar bathing fixtures shall be mechanically ventilated in accordance with the International Mechanical Code.
2009 IMC Public bathroom note g. Mechanical exhaust is required and recirculation is prohibited except that recirculation shall be permitted where the resulting supply airstream consists ofnot more

 

[mwm1752]

The IMC note g is for a public toilet room which is what we are discussing -- here is the definition for bathroom per IMC
BATHROOM. A room containing a bathtub, shower, spa or similar bathing fixture. FYI note g is also applicable to all dwellings for bathrooms & toiletrooms in the IMC

 

[kwired]

2009 IMC Public bathroom note g. Mechanical exhaust is required and recirculation is prohibited except that recirculation shall be permitted where the resulting supply airstream consists ofnot more

Please tell us there is more to that than your post contains

 

[david]

I have a small commercial space with a handicap bath and a regular bath, just a toilet and sink. The ceiling is exposed concrete. The owner bought two ductless fans. Are these acceptable, are fans even required? Also the last HC bath I did the inspector wanted an emergency light in there so I put one in this bath but is that required? Thanks

Yes, mechanical exhaust is required -- emergency lighting is required only for the egress path which is generally not inside single entrance rooms adjoining the path, I would recommend a light.
2009 IBC 1203.4.2.1 Bathrooms. Rooms containing bathtubs, showers, spas and similar bathing fixtures shall be mechanically ventilated in accordance with the International Mechanical Code.
2009 IMC Public bathroom note g. Mechanical exhaust is required and recirculation is prohibited except that recirculation shall be permitted where the resulting supply airstream consists ofnot more

The op said its just a toilet and a sink from what was posted 1203.4.2.1 I am not sure how you are saying an exhaust fan is required since there are no bathing fixtures in this space.

 

[eprice]

The op said its just a toilet and a sink from what was posted 1203.4.2.1 I am not sure how you are saying an exhaust fan is required since there are no bathing fixtures in this space.

IMC Table 403.3 requires mechanical ventilation for public toilet rooms and references footnote g. Footnote g prohibits recirculation of air, unless the resulting supply stream consists of not more than 10% recirculated air.

 

[jcbabb]

I have a small commercial space with a handicap bath and a regular bath, just a toilet and sink. The ceiling is exposed concrete. The owner bought two ductless fans. Are these acceptable, are fans even required? Also the last HC bath I did the inspector wanted an emergency light in there so I put one in this bath but is that required? Thanks

I've never see a code that required emergency lights in a single hole restroom. I do think it's a good idea to include one, and every inspector I've come across requires one (regardless of the lack of a code requirement).

 

[david]

IMC Table 403.3 requires mechanical ventilation for public toilet rooms and references footnote g. Footnote g prohibits recirculation of air, unless the resulting supply stream consists of not more than 10% recirculated air.

402 deals with natural ventilation for a public toilet room table 403.3 deals with the ventilation rate when a mechanical vent is used for the public toilet room. I am still not sure how you are connecting the dots between saying this is the mechanical ventilation rate when a mechanical exhaust fan is used to saying table 403 is requiring an exhaust fan in this space.

Doesn't it come down to weather or not their is a window (natural) ventilation or not in this space?

it is clear that the NEC does not deal with the subject as was pointed out. The op will have to ask the building inspector if this space needs an exhaust fan or emergency lighting.

 

[mwm1752]

402 deals with natural ventilation for a public toilet room table 403.3 deals with the ventilation rate when a mechanical vent is used for the public toilet room. I am still not sure how you are connecting the dots between saying this is the mechanical ventilation rate when a mechanical exhaust fan is used to saying table 403 is requiring an exhaust fan in this space.

Doesn't it come down to weather or not their is a window (natural) ventilation or not in this space?

it is clear that the NEC does not deal with the subject as was pointed out. The op will have to ask the building inspector if this space needs an exhaust fan or emergency lighting.

True 403 is based on mechanical ventilation and the table referenced in 403 instructs to have a minimum flow rate for listed types of occupied rooms. Within the list is public toilets(which I addressed in the immediate post after misstating it as a public bathroom) There is a letter note g besides the public toilets listing which makes it mandatory to have mechanical ventilation. This can be achieve with an individual fan unit or an ERV system. Even though natural ventilation can be in place IMO it would be in addition to the mechanical ventilation requirement
than 10 percent air recirculated from these spaces (see Section 403.2.1, Items 2 and 4). the rest of the story K

 

[eprice]

I have a small commercial space with a handicap bath and a regular bath, just a toilet and sink. The ceiling is exposed concrete. The owner bought two ductless fans. Are these acceptable, are fans even required? Also the last HC bath I did the inspector wanted an emergency light in there so I put one in this bath but is that required? Thanks

With regard to the part of your post about emergency lighting, the IBC may not be the adopted code in your area, but it likely is, or an amended version of it. IBC Section 1006.3 lists five locations where emergency lighting is required. Item 1 in that list would apply if the restroom is large enough to require two exits, generally more than 49 occupants (that would be a very big restroom indeed). None of the other locations would apply to a restroom. So, unless there is a local amendment or some other code requiring it, emergency light may be a good idea, but not required.

 

[GerryB]

Ductless fans? Why not make people bring in their own pocket sized battery operated personal fan? It will do about the same thing, which is stir the air a little, plus it may actually provide more direct cooling effects to the user if they could use cooling off:roll:

I like that idea. I'll provide the personal fan and a can of Glade and call it a day. Actually the fan call would be the building official or the plumbing inspector, I wrote my contract to not include venting. The handicap bath I put the call for aide in and it's just easier on the rough to add a box in case the inspector does a "Well I like to see" an emergency light. Seems from the posts both issues are a grey area. The fan could be vented but it would be about 50' down one level to the basement and out through a block wall.

 

[mgookin]

Windowless Facilities requires emergency lighting. That's subject to local interpretation.

 

[david]

True 403 is based on mechanical ventilation and the table referenced in 403 instructs to have a minimum flow rate for listed types of occupied rooms. Within the list is public toilets(which I addressed in the immediate post after misstating it as a public bathroom) There is a letter note g besides the public toilets listing which makes it mandatory to have mechanical ventilation. This can be achieve with an individual fan unit or an ERV system. Even though natural ventilation can be in place IMO it would be in addition to the mechanical ventilation requirement
than 10 percent air recirculated from these spaces (see Section 403.2.1, Items 2 and 4). the rest of the story K

ok I can see where your getting that from

 

[kwired]

Windowless Facilities requires emergency lighting. That's subject to local interpretation.

I would like to think you can still be left in the dark if the lights go out at night, at least it works that way here with or without codes:happyyes:

 

[Gregg Harris]

With regard to the part of your post about emergency lighting, the IBC may not be the adopted code in your area, but it likely is, or an amended version of it. IBC Section 1006.3 lists five locations where emergency lighting is required. Item 1 in that list would apply if the restroom is large enough to require two exits, generally more than 49 occupants (that would be a very big restroom indeed). None of the other locations would apply to a restroom. So, unless there is a local amendment or some other code requiring it, emergency light may be a good idea, but not required.

I would agree