Stand By Generator Gas Bond Help

[Rockyhamella]

Hi, I'm new to this site and I'm hoping to benefit from the knowledge of those more experienced then myself. I don't know if it's wishful thinking but if at all possible I'd like to hear from Mike Holt himself on this matter.

My Question is in regards to the Gas Bond on a Stand By Generator..?

This is a problem I've had with the plumbing side of inspections believe it or not and not the electrical. But for some reason (me) the electrical installer has to deal with the plumbing inspection.

Now I had some problems with several different county inspectors throughout the State of Maryland. I won't mention the county's as I don't want to create any issues there but some had a difference of opinion on how I bonded the gas.

I've tried several different ways to do the bond while trying to be as safe and cost effective as possible.


One of My questions is why bond the gas? Does it seem more dangerous to do so?
The fact that I have an equipment ground should be good enough I believe and am I adding an extra risk with a gas bond?
Isn't the gas already bonded at the main usually anyway if it's required?

Now for the how to bond...

Some Counties have made me grab the water Bond and run to the gas for the unit,
Some made me go from the Electrical Main.. Which I don't really agree with,
Some made me go from the Homes Main Gas Meter Bond,
Many of these brought up cost as the area of the generator could be over 50 to 100 foot away from these areas and we all know bare copper of # 6 can be expensive when you get long lengths of it.

Plus not to mention we're always told to make our grounding/bonding runs as short as possible.
And am I right or is A bond just supposed to be shortest possible jump from the closest Ground point available?

Here's one problem I have with bonding the gas.. I know it's pointless to drive a ground rod and bond the gas, which is how some of the counties would make me do it unit I continued to argue that its stupid. So isn't it the same thing if I bond it from the Water or Gas Main?
It is Useless?

So I finally came up with a way I think makes a little more sense and convinced most of these Counties to let me use it. I would just like to hear some feed back if its a good way or not to bond the gas. I'd really rather not bong the gas at all but at this point the plumbing wont pass without it.

So at one point they use to make me drive a ground rod and go from the ground rod to the back of the generator where a lug is installed by the generator manufacturer; and from there I had to go the point the gas was installed at the generator with a bond clamp.

What I am doing now; I go from this lug at the back of the generator; which I tested continuity from the equipment ground bar to this lug. And I go right to the Gas with a bond clamp. It's only 2 ft of bare # 6 compared to any other method and I believe in theory that it's more effective all around if you must bond/ground gas.

But I do still feel a little uneasy about this matter as safety is important to me.

Any opinions?

 

[ceb58]

Hi, I'm new to this site and I'm hoping to benefit from the knowledge of those more experienced then myself. I don't know if it's wishful thinking but if at all possible I'd like to hear from Mike Holt himself on this matter.

My Question is in regards to the Gas Bond on a Stand By Generator..?

This is a problem I've had with the plumbing side of inspections believe it or not and not the electrical. But for some reason (me) the electrical installer has to deal with the plumbing inspection.

Now I had some problems with several different county inspectors throughout the State of Maryland. I won't mention the county's as I don't want to create any issues there but some had a difference of opinion on how I bonded the gas.

I've tried several different ways to do the bond while trying to be as safe and cost effective as possible.


One of My questions is why bond the gas? Does it seem more dangerous to do so?
The fact that I have an equipment ground should be good enough I believe and am I adding an extra risk with a gas bond?
Isn't the gas already bonded at the main usually anyway if it's required?

Now for the how to bond...

Some Counties have made me grab the water Bond and run to the gas for the unit,
Some made me go from the Electrical Main.. Which I don't really agree with,
Some made me go from the Homes Main Gas Meter Bond,
Many of these brought up cost as the area of the generator could be over 50 to 100 foot away from these areas and we all know bare copper of # 6 can be expensive when you get long lengths of it.

Plus not to mention we're always told to make our grounding/bonding runs as short as possible.
And am I right or is A bond just supposed to be shortest possible jump from the closest Ground point available?

Here's one problem I have with bonding the gas.. I know it's pointless to drive a ground rod and bond the gas, which is how some of the counties would make me do it unit I continued to argue that its stupid. So isn't it the same thing if I bond it from the Water or Gas Main?
It is Useless?

So I finally came up with a way I think makes a little more sense and convinced most of these Counties to let me use it. I would just like to hear some feed back if its a good way or not to bond the gas. I'd really rather not bong the gas at all but at this point the plumbing wont pass without it.

So at one point they use to make me drive a ground rod and go from the ground rod to the back of the generator where a lug is installed by the generator manufacturer; and from there I had to go the point the gas was installed at the generator with a bond clamp.

What I am doing now; I go from this lug at the back of the generator; which I tested continuity from the equipment ground bar to this lug. And I go right to the Gas with a bond clamp. It's only 2 ft of bare # 6 compared to any other method and I believe in theory that it's more effective all around if you must bond/ground gas.

But I do still feel a little uneasy about this matter as safety is important to me.

Any opinions?
View attachment 9874 View attachment 9875

Although Mike Holt host this forum he very seldom post to the site, so you are stuck with the rest of us.:slaphead:

250.104 Bonding of Piping Systems and Exposed Structural
Steel.
(B) Other Metal Piping.
If installed in, or attached to, a
building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including
gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be
bonded to the service equipment enclosure; the grounded
conductor at the service; the grounding electrode conductor,
if of sufficient size; or to one or more grounding electrodes
used. The bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s) shall be
sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the
circuit that is likely to energize the piping system(s). The
equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely
to energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the
bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding
jumper(s) shall be accessible.

Now the argument, "likely to be energized" But it looks that the way you are doing it would comply.

 

[Rockyhamella]

Ok, yeah that makes me feel a little better then. I do have a code book but I'm still new to looking things up, so I'm going to need to learn to open that book a little more. Thanks for your time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Daja7]

in our area the gas bond must come from the source. Main panel ground or cold water if metal.
I would be more consernd about the SER cable. Here that won't fly. Subject to damage. Cable must be in conduit or flex. The control cable if TC won't fly either. 240v present. Must be in conduit or tray. low volt is ok.

 

[kwired]

If it is metallic gas piping and supplied from other existing metallic gas piping chances are it is already sufficiently bonded by the equipment grounding conductor. You possibly could need a bonding jumper around a short flexible section at the equipment though. If you have CSST you have a whole different ball game and need to see manufacturers instructions for the particular tubing you have.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

The requirements could be coming from the IRC or IMC codes.

IRC 2012 also in the IMC
G2411.1 (310.1) Pipe and tubing other than CSST.
Each above-ground portion of a gas piping system other than corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST), that is likely to become energized shall be electrically continuous and bonded to an effective ground-fault current path. Gas piping, other than CSST, shall be considered to be bonded where it is connected to appliances that are connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the circuit supplying that appliance.
G2411.1.1 (310.1.1) CSST. Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system. The bonding jumper shall connect to a metallic pipe or fitting between the point of delivery and the first downstream CSST fitting. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent. Gas piping systems that contain one or more segments of CSST shall be bonded in accordance with this section.

2009 IRC is different
G2411.1.1 (310.1.1) CSST. Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.

The NFPA wanted third party testing to show this does anything and rejected the proposal for lack of that information. Here in NJ the requirements for this in the 2009 IRC are the electrical inspector?s responsibility. Note the ICC codes do not differentiate between types of CSST as such all types require bonding.