Why don't my generator work? (w/pics)

[PetrosA]

I got a call to check out why a recently installed (within the last year) generator won't work. It trips the breaker every time they try and run it to test it or when there's no power. It ran when the electrician who installed it tested it, so "somethin' musta happened since then."

The property includes a house made up of two double wides attached together and a large shop in the rear on one pole mounted 100A service, and a separate office building with a separate service. The generator is supposed to be able to run the house when the breakers are switched correctly.

I admit with shame that I didn't spot the issue right away although I did notice most of the other 50 issues. It took me about 5 minutes to realize what the problem with the generator was. I was stuck in a certain direction of thinking based on the claim that an electrician set this up. Evidently, the "electrician" who installed the generator hook-up is actually a real electrician who works for a local company and does mostly commercial work as a journeyman. He is presently wiring a local microbrewey. He hasn't charged the customer since he completed the installation.

His instructions to the customer were: Shut off the main breakers, start the generator, turn on the 50A breaker for the generator then turn on the house main. Poof. Generator breaker trips every time. Hmm.

Oh, and did I mention this is at a junkyard complete with a real junkyard dog and six inches of oily, toxic-waste type mud everywhere?

 

[kwired]

Is the cord connector hanging below the panel the "generator inlet"?

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

How fast can you run:?

 

[texie]

I got a call to check out why a recently installed (within the last year) generator won't work. It trips the breaker every time they try and run it to test it or when there's no power. It ran when the electrician who installed it tested it, so "somethin' musta happened since then."

The property includes a house made up of two double wides attached together and a large shop in the rear on one pole mounted 100A service, and a separate office building with a separate service. The generator is supposed to be able to run the house when the breakers are switched correctly.

I admit with shame that I didn't spot the issue right away although I did notice most of the other 50 issues. It took me about 5 minutes to realize what the problem with the generator was. I was stuck in a certain direction of thinking based on the claim that an electrician set this up. Evidently, the "electrician" who installed the generator hook-up is actually a real electrician who works for a local company and does mostly commercial work as a journeyman. He is presently wiring a local microbrewey. He hasn't charged the customer since he completed the installation.

His instructions to the customer were: Shut off the main breakers, start the generator, turn on the 50A breaker for the generator then turn on the house main. Poof. Generator breaker trips every time. Hmm.

Oh, and did I mention this is at a junkyard complete with a real junkyard dog and six inches of oily, toxic-waste type mud everywhere?

It looks to me like you need to add an extra step to the start-up instructions: REMOVE METER before generator use.
Other than that it looks fully compliant and safe.:happysad:
Amazing what one finds in the wild.

 

[augie47]

On the way down the street running from this job you might drop your business card off at the microbrewery.

 

[PetrosA]

Is the cord connector hanging below the panel the "generator inlet"?

Yes. It's a "female inlet." At least that's what they call them here

 

[PetrosA]

How fast can you run:?

With two inches of mud on my boots? Not very fast.

 

[kwired]

Yes. It's a "female inlet." At least that's what they call them here

Makes sense, as an industry/trade seems we have always been wrong, if it were a male end wouldn't it be an "outlet"

 

[charlie b]

Sorry, but I am a bit dense this morning. Perhaps I just need more coffee. But I don't see the issue. Can someone please explain what I am looking at in the photos?

 

[texie]

Sorry, but I am a bit dense this morning. Perhaps I just need more coffee. But I don't see the issue. Can someone please explain what I am looking at in the photos?

In addition to the 50 or so code issues that the OP alluded to, from what I see in the photos one would have to remove the POCO meter for this to work.

 

[GoldDigger]

The first thing you are looking at is the absence of either a transfer switch or a breaker interlock.
The second thing you are looking at is the rest of the workmanship.
Do not bother to look for the instructions.


Tapatalk!

 

[GoldDigger]

Well, if the POCO service is down, no problem unless you are a lineman, right????
(NOT!)

Tapatalk!

 

[texie]

Well, if the POCO service is down, no problem unless you are a lineman, right????
(NOT!)

Tapatalk!

Usually with a small generator like this, even if the POCO was down, just the POCO transformer would look like a short to the genset and trip the breaker.
I'm not denying that this is incredibly unsafe though, as one could never be sure that it wouldn't energize the primary side.

 

[meternerd]

Beautiful work....if you have both generator power and POCO power, they'll most likely be out of phase. When you parallel 'em, the POCO is the thousand pound gorilla and will either trip the gen breaker or launch the generator across the yard. So...either an automatic transfer switch with in-phase sensor (expensive) or a break before make transfer switch (less expensive), but not much you can do to what you showed except "disavow any knowledge" and leave. I kinda suspect the POCO would not be happy with pulling the meter.

 

[EV607797]

I love the neutral for the USE triplex and the cables in the pipe. No need to hit that neutral bar, huh? :blink:

 

[goldstar]

Unless you're really hard up for work I'd run away as others have suggested. This looks like a bonifide Rube Goldberg and a customer that was looking to get out cheap & dirty. Any electrician worth his salt would not have done something like this. Chances are if there's a power outage and the junk yard people start the generator it may see the xfmr on the utility pole as an excessive load and will trip the breaker on the generator as has been suggested. By the same token, if there's a downed primary nearby and you power up the secondary side of that xfmr you could end up putting power on the primary side and endangering a utility worker.

Unless this facility is willing to pay you to correct this I would run. FWIW, once you touch this thing - you own it. Not a liability I would want to take on. If you decide to do the work make sure you get paid !!!

 

[PetrosA]

Something tells me this company isn't going to want to pay me to fix it properly. When I started discussing equipment prices, the owner told me that he buys panels and breakers from a guy in Maryland who guts them out of burned out mobile homes for $50 and that he doesn't pay supply house prices. :slaphead:

 

[augie47]

"Feet don't fail me now"

 

[J.P.]

Looks like the the work we see when a local rancher needs help after something a buddy of his wired up didn't work quite right.


Now you could just put some of those twist type battery disconnecting do-hickys on the utility side couldn't you? My cousin Daryl did that and it worked just fine. He taped it up real good so you wouldn't hardly even get a shock from it.........

 

[GoldDigger]

You have to be sure you only turn the knob on the battery switch in the right direction if it is the kind with a BOTH position.

Tapatalk!