meter box or main disconnect

[salvar774]

I am a little frustrated with the power company . M.V.E. coop ( electrical distribution Co. )insist on the G.E.C. be run from the ground rod to the meter enclosure most inspectors want it run to the main disconnect and do not want a grounding wire run from the disconnect to the meter enclosure . Some want the G.E.C. run to the meter base then to the disconnect uncut .Some say from the disconnect to the meter enclosure uncut . I say the neutral should be grounded at the main disconnect only and running a grounding wire to the meter is unnecessary because doing so is like running a parallel neutral.
The inspector approved the work but the power company refuses to hook until I do their way (run the G.E.C to the meter first )

What the heck! I tell them they have no say so . I am qualified to do electrical work ,the inspector is qualified to do inspections of my work ,yet the power company service man that does not even hold a journeyman license is dictating what should be done .
I suppose it would be easier to just do it but is it right . I think not !
Is there a document I could print where it shows what I am saying ? I am meeting with the power company and I want to either change my view or theirs. Maybe I do not understand the correct way ???

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The grounding electrode conductor can go to the meter and does not need to go to the main service panel. The neutral is bonded in the meter and bonded at the first panel so there is no need to run the grounding electrode conductor between the two-- in fact, in doing so you are creating an alternative path and thus have paralleled the neutral.

Some areas of the country will not allow the grounding electrode conductor in the meter-- in those cases they install it at the main panel.

 

[salvar774]

I understand that . My problem is that the inspector says one thing the power company something else . I too agree it should not run from the meter and the disconnect. The code says it should be accessible. If it is sealed the the meter base how can it be accessible. The inspector says the neutral should be grounded at the disconnect and not the meter . Am I not clear in my post ? I know I think I am but it seems not .
So which is correct ? meter or disconnect ?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I understand that . My problem is that the inspector says one thing the power company something else . I too agree it should not run from the meter and the disconnect. The code says it should be accessible. If it is sealed the the meter base how can it be accessible. The inspector says the neutral should be grounded at the disconnect and not the meter . Am I not clear in my post ? I know I think I am but it seems not .
So which is correct ? meter or disconnect ?

I think the terminology you are using is not clear. It seems you are using grounding when you may be talking about the grounding electrode conductor. They are not the same thing.

If the inspector says the grounding electrode conductor must be at the panel then he is incorrect. It can be anywhere on the supply side of the service disconnect including the service disconnect enclosure

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Some inspectors feel that the grounding electrode conductor is not accessible in the meter-- maybe that is why they want it in the panel. Good luck trying to convince the power company. I would have my inspector and the power company guys talk about it.

 

[salvar774]

I think the terminology you are using is not clear. It seems you are using grounding when you may be talking about the grounding electrode conductor. They are not the same thing.

If the inspector says the grounding electrode conductor must be at the panel then he is incorrect. It can be anywhere on the supply side of the service disconnect including the service disconnect enclosure

Yes talking about the grounding electrode conductor . Not saying the panel but the main 200 amp disconnect . I ran the G.E.C. to the 200 amp main and did not run it to the meter . The power company wants it run to the meter then the 200 amp main . The power company service man is wrong but is dictating this be done his way or he will not connect . The inspector approved my way . He too says no conductor from the 200 amp main to the meter box .

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Yes talking about the grounding electrode conductor . Not saying the panel but the main 200 amp disconnect . I ran the G.E.C. to the 200 amp main and did not run it to the meter . The power company wants it run to the meter then the 200 amp main . The power company service man is wrong but is dictating this be done his way or he will not connect . The inspector approved my way . He too says no conductor from the 200 amp main to the meter box .

I would talk to the engineer above the power company guy and see if you can get anywhere with them. Unfortunately they can be a royal pain.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Your best bet may be to explain the situation to the inspector and see if he will allow the hookup in the meter and leave it at that.

 

[salvar774]

I would talk to the engineer above the power company guy and see if you can get anywhere with them. Unfortunately they can be a royal pain.

I have a meeting with the CEO/ main engineer of the power company. I know I am right . Everywhere in texas it is done as I do . In the Rio Grande Valley , (in the rural areas serviced by MVE ) it is done this way. What I have a problem with is the fact that I am licensed and the inspector is licensed but the power company man is not , yet he can dictate to me what is to be done ! I have contacted the Texas Dept of Licensing and Regulation about this . It seems being licensed in Texas means nothing to MVE (Magic Valley Electric Coop.) What is the point being licensed if some unlicensed guy is checking your work and dictating how you should do it .

Does any one have a document explaining why running a grounding electrode conductor from the service disconnect to the meter after running it to the service disconnect from the grounding electrode, is not a good idea ? My meeting is tomorrow at 10 am

 

[Little Bill]

In my area, I deal with two POCOs (mainly). One requires the GEC to land in the meter base. The other requires it be brought up to the service drop and tied directly to the grounded conductor if it's an overhead service.

It really is up to the POCO to decide according to their policys if they aren't in direct conflict with the NEC.

With that said, here is what the NEC says:

250.24(A)(1)

(1) General. The grounding electrode conductor connection
shall be made at any accessible point from the load end
of the service drop or service lateral to and including the
terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is
connected at the service disconnecting means.

Edit: If the inspector is requiring it a certain way he is incorrect unless there is a local amendment as such in writing. Since the NEC says "accessible", in the meter is still accessible. Maybe not readily accessible, but that is not what the code says.

 

[GoldDigger]

On the POCO side of the service point point, they are not under the NEC and are free to bond ground to neutral as many times as they want without worrying about paralleling the neutral. And there is no prohibition anywhere against paralleling a ground.
Since connecting the GEC to the meter box is also in effect bonding ground to neutral and is an NEC recognized place to do this, you would not be allowed to bond the two in the main panel.
That too is fine in practice, just not what you originally planned.
Extending the GEC from the meter to the main panel then is perfectly OK since it would not be paralleling the neutral.
But whether the POCO can require the GEC to land first inside their meter can where it is inaccessible is another question between POCO and your AHJ, IMO.


Tapatalk!

 

[pjholguin]

What does NEC mean by "load end of the service drop"?

PJHolguin.

In my area, I deal with two POCOs (mainly). One requires the GEC to land in the meter base. The other requires it be brought up to the service drop and tied directly to the grounded conductor if it's an overhead service.

It really is up to the POCO to decide according to their policys if they aren't in direct conflict with the NEC.

With that said, here is what the NEC says:

250.24(A)(1)



Edit: If the inspector is requiring it a certain way he is incorrect unless there is a local amendment as such in writing. Since the NEC says "accessible", in the meter is still accessible. Maybe not readily accessible, but that is not what the code says.

 

[hurk27]

When I get this response from an inspector that the meter is not accessible I simply point out that all terminations including the neutrals and hots are also required to be accessible ask the inspector if they also want those removed from the meter?

As far as the POCO wanting the GEC run to the meter, that is just the problem of the misunderstanding that the GEC does very little if anything but since these line men work with much higher voltages they still think a ground rod is the holy grail to safety of an electrical system when it really does not provide any protection from any safety stand point, but they think it does and you will never convince them otherwise.

 

[Little Bill]

What does NEC mean by "load end of the service drop"?

PJHolguin.

Well on an overhead install, it would be where the POCO's conductors end at the weatherhead and where the customer's begin. ie; where the two are connected.
Thus the conductors from that point on are on the "load end" of the service drop.

 

[hurk27]

Well on an overhead install, it would be where the POCO's conductors end at the weatherhead and where the customer's begin. ie; where the two are connected.
Thus the conductors from that point on are on the "load end" of the service drop.

I had a friend of mine who was so upset with an inspector on not allowing him to land the GEC in the meter he piped up to the meter then ran the GEC up through the meter up the riser pipe and bonded it to the service neutral at the weather head just to get back at him, but it back fired, the inspector then red tagged it for not having both ends of the riser pipe bonded to the GEC as he had no way to bond the bottom of the riser pipe because it was in the meters factory hub which didn't have a means to attach a bond connection to, I was able to get the inspector to allow him to land in the meter since the POCO was ok with it, and the state AHJ sent the inspector a letter to cease disease his wishes as landing in the meter was code compliant and the POCO had no problem with it as it was their preferred place they wanted it landed at.