gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
I'm not sure who to worry about more; me for thinking it up, or you for agreeing with me! :lol:
van inventory shrinkage
- Thread starter Rewire
- Start date
- Status
I'm not sure who to worry about more; me for thinking it up, or you for agreeing with me! :lol:
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
The first company (aside from my dad's) that I worked for out of HS back in '88 had us write up wirenuts, screws, romex connectors, etc. It was old school for sure, but the old man made it work and we had good insurance, overtime when we wanted it and Christmas bonuses. Part of me still misses those days...
Rewire
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
Why do you consider it idiotic?
It would probably be more fun and productive to install a limit switch and an indicator light on the dash.
i've never laughed so hard a a post here before, seriously. thanks george.:lol:
Its not stupid, IMO. Its a waste of time for small amounts, again IMO. Yes pennies add up to dollars. Fiscal responsibility is paramount as a principal and you need to maintain a high standard of ethics for you and your subordinates. But keep an eye on the long view. You won't become more wealthy by counting wire nuts, spend the time developing relationships that allow you to not concern yourself with shrink. It will happen, and you may have dishonest employees that need to be canned, no denying it. But some details must be overlooked at certain levels.
If I turn in to a dick about all the little things, my employees will resent me. Resentment lowers productivity. That also affects their attitude and happiness. Happy (or at least not mad/resentful) employees are better than 100% obedient and compliant employees. I pretend to care, and show sincerity about some concepts that are BS. 100% compliance is unrealistic, so 90% feels good most of the time.
Would I be wrong for holding them accountable? No, and neither would you in the case of shrink, but try and be reasonable.
rt66electric
Senior Member
- Location
- Oklahoma
line item .... HARDWARE...
line item .... HARDWARE...
When filing out jobtickets, and need to fluff the bill. I use the Item "HARDWARE". and $5, $10, $50, or however much is need to cover the dropped wirenuts.
On other jobs.... Do you give the men credit for Demo jobs???? When items may actually added to the truck?? A few jobs ,, I have come home with the truck loaded with reusable material..
Does a serviceman get a bonus for a profitable truck ????
or is the only avenue availble is a daily kick-in-head for a days trouble.
I knew an estimator that would be terrible upset because the guess(takeoff) for 3/4 connectors would not be correct at the end of the job.
He had very affirmative discussion for (3 hours) that at then end of the job there should be no more or no less material at the end of the job, I sat there and pretented to listen while he spoke.
He also thought that a 50 amp motor home outlet used two "A" phases.
After several jobs the leadmen would throw away the leftovers instead of bringing them back to the shop,
The estimators were giddy with pride.
line item .... HARDWARE...
When filing out jobtickets, and need to fluff the bill. I use the Item "HARDWARE". and $5, $10, $50, or however much is need to cover the dropped wirenuts.
On other jobs.... Do you give the men credit for Demo jobs???? When items may actually added to the truck?? A few jobs ,, I have come home with the truck loaded with reusable material..
Does a serviceman get a bonus for a profitable truck ????
or is the only avenue availble is a daily kick-in-head for a days trouble.
I knew an estimator that would be terrible upset because the guess(takeoff) for 3/4 connectors would not be correct at the end of the job.
He had very affirmative discussion for (3 hours) that at then end of the job there should be no more or no less material at the end of the job, I sat there and pretented to listen while he spoke.
He also thought that a 50 amp motor home outlet used two "A" phases.
After several jobs the leadmen would throw away the leftovers instead of bringing them back to the shop,
The estimators were giddy with pride.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
That reminds me of a well known Silicon Valley company that came under new management.
They sent out a notice to all of the exempt employees telling them that during this time of financial stress for the company they all needed to put in 50 hours per week.
The employees were so offended that they cut back to 50 hours.
Tapatalk!
They sent out a notice to all of the exempt employees telling them that during this time of financial stress for the company they all needed to put in 50 hours per week.
The employees were so offended that they cut back to 50 hours.
Tapatalk!
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
That's good stuff right there.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
yeah, it is. he wouldn't benefit from hearing it at this point, however.
most of the "crew" here drug up two pages ago, and found other work.
the OP asked a question, the predominate response was negative,
and that oughta be a clue enough for him, but i suspect it isn't.
god save me from bidding jobs where a handful of wire nuts makes
a bit of difference.... in the time he would spend establishing inventory
controls for common material like wire nuts, i'd take that time, and bid
work, go do the work, and move on.
but i got concerned about this, so i just did take off for material for
three jobs, and added $500 to each one for the wirenuts, so i think
i'm ok.... the wire is #2 to 3/0 in size, so those wire nuts will be
'spensive.
i feel better now. check that box.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
Some states allow you to dock wages for this kind of thing, others don't. In general I think it is a bad idea.
The bottom line is the bottom line. At the end of the year you need to turn a profit. If shrinkage is impacting the bottom line you seriously you need to do something about it.
Probably the best thing you can do is conduct an inventory of every van on a regular basis and just make it clear that while it may not matter much to the employee to have a record of what was used where, that it does matter to you.
You might also want to consider your current procedures for such things that may be contributing to a loss of accuracy in inventory management.
I knew a place that had a similar situation so they came up with a form that listed every part that was stocked in their vans. All the employees had to do was write down the quantity used for each part at each stop. Seems simple. However, on the first pass they put all the parts in order by their internal part numbers which had been assigned serially over the years so the parts were in no particular order making it fairly difficult to use. The also used the descriptions for the parts that were in their computer database which often bore only a remote resemblance to the actual part. It took several iterations of the form to get one that was really useful.
The bottom line is the bottom line. At the end of the year you need to turn a profit. If shrinkage is impacting the bottom line you seriously you need to do something about it.
Probably the best thing you can do is conduct an inventory of every van on a regular basis and just make it clear that while it may not matter much to the employee to have a record of what was used where, that it does matter to you.
You might also want to consider your current procedures for such things that may be contributing to a loss of accuracy in inventory management.
I knew a place that had a similar situation so they came up with a form that listed every part that was stocked in their vans. All the employees had to do was write down the quantity used for each part at each stop. Seems simple. However, on the first pass they put all the parts in order by their internal part numbers which had been assigned serially over the years so the parts were in no particular order making it fairly difficult to use. The also used the descriptions for the parts that were in their computer database which often bore only a remote resemblance to the actual part. It took several iterations of the form to get one that was really useful.
fmtjfw
Senior Member
- Location
- Fairmont, WV, USA
That reminds me of a well known Silicon Valley company that came under new management.
They sent out a notice to all of the exempt employees telling them that during this time of financial stress for the company they all needed to put in 50 hours per week.
The employees were so offended that they cut back to 50 hours.
Tapatalk!
That actually happened to me in Massachusetts. Management kept saying that we were not to spend any time even thinking about moving our operating system to a new hardware platform. Then they came in one day and said we need your operating system on the new hardware in six months. After the laughter was over we came up with a schedule for a year. Then the group set out to get it done.
Management then got excited again and "mandated" that we work until 6 p.m. each day. We asked are you sure you want to mandate this. They said yes, and set a memo to each member of the team.
SO, we started going home at 6 rather than 9.
fmtjfw
Senior Member
- Location
- Fairmont, WV, USA
Your are going to spend time lookiing for what?
Your are going to spend time lookiing for what?
So now say I drop a wire nut into a wall and can't get it out. Should I write it off to "lost" or should I charge it to the job? Now admittedly, it is now a "possession" of the customer, but it is useless and has provided no benefit.
What is the ethical thing to do?
I once had this discussion with a a contractor's employee. I was the engineering clerk on an Interstate construction job whilst in high school. He was wiring a float switch on a water tank used to fill the dust suppression trucks. He dropped a roll of Scotch 33 and it rolled into the woods.
He said his boss would want him to find the tape. I told hm to just charge it to the job, as at the rate we were paying per hour, it was cheaper to pay for a full roll. [I wonder if his boss had him measure how many inches he used???]
Your are going to spend time lookiing for what?
So now say I drop a wire nut into a wall and can't get it out. Should I write it off to "lost" or should I charge it to the job? Now admittedly, it is now a "possession" of the customer, but it is useless and has provided no benefit.
What is the ethical thing to do?
I once had this discussion with a a contractor's employee. I was the engineering clerk on an Interstate construction job whilst in high school. He was wiring a float switch on a water tank used to fill the dust suppression trucks. He dropped a roll of Scotch 33 and it rolled into the woods.
He said his boss would want him to find the tape. I told hm to just charge it to the job, as at the rate we were paying per hour, it was cheaper to pay for a full roll. [I wonder if his boss had him measure how many inches he used???]
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
The comments about going home early brings up another side of the coin. While I may not get the most accurate tracking of inventory, I also have guys that will work until the job is done, it is to dark or they are run off the job site by the owner.
I have purchased and kept track of over 6000 different items over the years, of that I have about 1200 different items on the shelf. I would rather sell one of those, than buy a new. In reality it would have been better to just pitch some of those items and having it done without my knowledge would have been easier. On the other hand knowing that I was consistently buying an extra $100 of some item might help to. A few years ago $1.00 was the difference in winning and losing a good sized project for a local EC.
I have purchased and kept track of over 6000 different items over the years, of that I have about 1200 different items on the shelf. I would rather sell one of those, than buy a new. In reality it would have been better to just pitch some of those items and having it done without my knowledge would have been easier. On the other hand knowing that I was consistently buying an extra $100 of some item might help to. A few years ago $1.00 was the difference in winning and losing a good sized project for a local EC.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Sorry but based on past penny pinching topics by the OP -
I understand the businessman approach to this.
Employees, depending on how you try to enforce this employees only see you as a greedy penny pincher, you at least need to reward them somehow for positive performance or they will not become very loyal employees.
Treat them right or they will have no incentive to treat you right is the bottom line.
I also understand wire nuts do add up in cost, so do many other small items. If you don't want those items to accidently end up going home in someone's pocket then I guess you could set up security similar to airport security to make sure they don't take anything home that is not theirs, even a single wire nut, but I can promise you even if you stop product loss you will also decrease performance levels because of resulting poor attitudes.
Employees make mistakes also, even if they are trying their best they can still miss occasional items when filling out a material list.
There is nothing wrong with addressing the issue, but you need to be careful how you address it, or it can indirectly cost you more than what you were trying to save.
I understand the businessman approach to this.
Employees, depending on how you try to enforce this employees only see you as a greedy penny pincher, you at least need to reward them somehow for positive performance or they will not become very loyal employees.
Treat them right or they will have no incentive to treat you right is the bottom line.
I also understand wire nuts do add up in cost, so do many other small items. If you don't want those items to accidently end up going home in someone's pocket then I guess you could set up security similar to airport security to make sure they don't take anything home that is not theirs, even a single wire nut, but I can promise you even if you stop product loss you will also decrease performance levels because of resulting poor attitudes.
Employees make mistakes also, even if they are trying their best they can still miss occasional items when filling out a material list.
There is nothing wrong with addressing the issue, but you need to be careful how you address it, or it can indirectly cost you more than what you were trying to save.
ptonsparky
Tom
- Occupation
- EC - retired
Exactly.
rt66electric
Senior Member
- Location
- Oklahoma
Do not jack with a $0.25 part..
Do not jack with a $0.25 part..
I was regularly working as a service call electrician for a large aerospace firm .
The Maintenance supervisor(good fellow) was walking by and noticed that I was stuggling with a small widget part ..
He came back by 15min later and then stopped looked at me still struggling to get the widgit to fit.
And Said " Look I pay your boss $60/hr for you to be here..... thats a $1 a minute..... don't jack with a $0.25 part"
All of a sudden it made sense..
Get the job done, then worry about the little stuff.
Do not let a dime hold up a dollar
Time is better spent making dollars than worrying about pennies
Do not jack with a $0.25 part..
I was regularly working as a service call electrician for a large aerospace firm .
The Maintenance supervisor(good fellow) was walking by and noticed that I was stuggling with a small widget part ..
He came back by 15min later and then stopped looked at me still struggling to get the widgit to fit.
And Said " Look I pay your boss $60/hr for you to be here..... thats a $1 a minute..... don't jack with a $0.25 part"
All of a sudden it made sense..
Get the job done, then worry about the little stuff.
Do not let a dime hold up a dollar
Time is better spent making dollars than worrying about pennies
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Good advice, but not entirely what the OP is after either. He is after disappearing materials than labor that is not really accounted for.
You have to expect some material loss, whether it be miscounting when making material lists, broken, damaged or misplaced on the job, ended up in someone's pocket at the end of the day and never came back, or even was given to another trade on same job to help them out - if you have major issues with giving a wire nut or two to the HVAC guy then you maybe are too much of a penny pincher.
All our billed invoices are looked at before being inputted to accounting. If a ballast is replaced and no wire nuts are used a flag goes up in the reviewers mind. He'll add in whatever is needed.
We also use a PO system. Once a supplier invoice is received the items are attached to the office copy of the job ticket.
At billing time the this items are added to the job ticket if missed or depending on cost are RGA back to the supplier.
Big items are drop shipped to jobsite. Packing slips are brought to office. Invoices from suppliers are faxed or emailed to office.
Truck inventory: About every 2 years we will do a truck inventory to satisfy the accountants. Also gives the guys an opportunity to get some of the old unused stuff off the truck.
The pisser is finding a box of switch plates in a mangled box, in the corner all boogered up. These go to the dumpster. The Sparky is given 40 lashes! :lol: And told to be more careful.
I guess the bottomline is this: How much inventory shrinkage are you talking about coming off the trucks?
If you docked my pay, it would happen only once. I would park your truck in the lot with a resignation letter on the dash.
We also use a PO system. Once a supplier invoice is received the items are attached to the office copy of the job ticket.
At billing time the this items are added to the job ticket if missed or depending on cost are RGA back to the supplier.
Big items are drop shipped to jobsite. Packing slips are brought to office. Invoices from suppliers are faxed or emailed to office.
Truck inventory: About every 2 years we will do a truck inventory to satisfy the accountants. Also gives the guys an opportunity to get some of the old unused stuff off the truck.
The pisser is finding a box of switch plates in a mangled box, in the corner all boogered up. These go to the dumpster. The Sparky is given 40 lashes! :lol: And told to be more careful.
I guess the bottomline is this: How much inventory shrinkage are you talking about coming off the trucks?
If you docked my pay, it would happen only once. I would park your truck in the lot with a resignation letter on the dash.
mjf
Senior Member
Don't forget to credit the customer if you're flat rate pricing and you reuse an existing wire nut.
:slaphead:- Status