Car charger -- service ampacity

[Nutmegger]

This is unrelated to the other EVSE thread, hence a separate posting:

I rarely see 100A panels in detached garages around here. The "high" average is a 60A fed by a 6/3 UF-B or buried rigid.
Say, the charger calls for a 50A breaker, perhaps because the sustained draw is 40A. I get the 80% rule there.
How about in relation to the entire panel -- is a single 50A 240V circuit too much for a 60A panel?

 

[LEO2854]

This is unrelated to the other EVSE thread, hence a separate posting:

I rarely see 100A panels in detached garages around here. The "high" average is a 60A fed by a 6/3 UF-B or buried rigid.
Say, the charger calls for a 50A breaker, perhaps because the sustained draw is 40A. I get the 80% rule there.
How about in relation to the entire panel -- is a single 50A 240V circuit too much for a 60A panel?

Yes it would be too much for a 60 amp service.

 

[GoldDigger]

Yes it would be too much for a 60 amp service.

Or for a building feeder is this is not really a service.
Which brings up the separate issue of feeding it with 6/3 UF-B of course.

 

[dereckbc]

50 and 100 amp services are really foreign to me. In the south about the smallest service you will see is 150 amps and 200 is default standard. Obviously this has to do air conditioning.

EV's pose a real problem for Uncle Sam and State Vehicle License in that they are cheated out of money letting EV owners get a free ride from the rest of us tax payers footing the bill. One of two solutions are proposed to solve the issue.

1. Require a dedicated service with meter for EV charging at a specified rate in which the POCO pays your gas and road use taxes.
2. Mileage based tax 1 year in advance when you renew your license plate.

 

[kwired]

50 and 100 amp services are really foreign to me. In the south about the smallest service you will see is 150 amps and 200 is default standard. Obviously this has to do air conditioning.

EV's pose a real problem for Uncle Sam and State Vehicle License in that they are cheated out of money letting EV owners get a free ride from the rest of us tax payers footing the bill. One of two solutions are proposed to solve the issue.

1. Require a dedicated service with meter for EV charging at a specified rate in which the POCO pays your gas and road use taxes.
2. Mileage based tax 1 year in advance when you renew your license plate.

I see a big problem policing option 1. If you have 2 meters and one is at a higher rate then the other people are going to cheat - especially if they are fairly certain they have little chance of being caught. Plus what is keeping them from using wind, solar, or other alternate sources to charge said vehicle?

100 amp service (or smaller) is probably still common for definite usage conditions like some pumping stations, signs, roadway lighting or anything else that has a pretty limited load and it is less than 100 amps.

 

[augie47]

This is unrelated to the other EVSE thread, hence a separate posting:

I rarely see 100A panels in detached garages around here. The "high" average is a 60A fed by a 6/3 UF-B or buried rigid.
Say, the charger calls for a 50A breaker, perhaps because the sustained draw is 40A. I get the 80% rule there.
How about in relation to the entire panel -- is a single 50A 240V circuit too much for a 60A panel?

As usual, the devil is in the details.
A detached garage with a 60 amp feeder and a couple of lights and convenience outlets could handle the 40 amp charger load with no problem.
Far from ideal and a good opportunity for an "up-sell", but if the "other guy" is going to charge to just install the charger you will miss out on the job.

 

[kwired]

As usual, the devil is in the details.
A detached garage with a 60 amp feeder and a couple of lights and convenience outlets could handle the 40 amp charger load with no problem.
Far from ideal and a good opportunity for an "up-sell", but if the "other guy" is going to charge to just install the charger you will miss out on the job.

It is also likely that charging at a high rate is for somewhat limited time and current does drop during the charging cycle.

 

[dereckbc]

I see a big problem policing option 1. If you have 2 meters and one is at a higher rate then the other people are going to cheat - especially if they are fairly certain they have little chance of being caught.

Well that is why Washington State is going to add it on to license fee.

Plus what is keeping them from using wind, solar, or other alternate sources to charge said vehicle?

Common sense, or at least it should. I can see it if you are talking grid tied with Net Metering in a state with high electric rates, excellent Solar Insolation, and your neighbors are forced to pay for most of it. But a stand alone alone system, or in states with low electric rates, no net metering laws, and lucrative subsides it would be extremely foolish to do so.

 

[kwired]

Well that is why Washington State is going to add it on to license fee.



Common sense, or at least it should. I can see it if you are talking grid tied with Net Metering in a state with high electric rates, excellent Solar Insolation, and your neighbors are forced to pay for most of it. But a stand alone alone system, or in states with low electric rates, no net metering laws, and lucrative subsides it would be extremely foolish to do so.

I don't know just how fair it is to add on to license fees either. Taxes on gasoline are at least going to be higher for those who use more gasoline- and chances are they are making more use of the roads the taxes are supposed to be maintaining, one problem is gasoline used for off road activity is still paying road taxes as well. Farmers (and maybe some others) that are using fuel (primarily diesel) can purchase fuel without added road taxes but they put a dye in the fuel to indicate it is not taxed and if you get caught with that fuel in your tank in a commercial vehicle on a public road there are some heavy fines.

The system now is not all the best and for a long time there have been some that run on LP gas that likely do not pay any road tax either, so EV's are going to be a big challenge as well when it comes to everyone paying their fair share of the road usage.