How can I get paid?

[kaichosan]

We completed electrical engineering for a design/build electrical contractor for the last 2-1/2 years. The three high-rise buildings are substantially completed and one is in occupancy now.

We basically got 5% of the total design fee. Mechanics Lien does not apply to consultants after 30 days of delivery. Of course the design services is on going through out the construction on a "fast track" scheme. Had a Demand Letter done, one GC agreed to get a two-party check for some payment. The Electrical contractor calls us about it. However, the amount is half what the GC said he's willing to pay. Should we accept the minimal payment, the General wants us to do the final sign off for the applications so they can do beneficial occupancy...nah. Now, the electrical contractor is claiming that the emergency lighting design was faulty and caused him more expense to correct so will back-charge our fee. I heard that the company is having money problems suppliers and the local IBEW.

I could go to court; but I had similar problem 13 years ago for the same amount; hired a lawyer who got paid more than what I was trying to collect... so I got hit with a double whammy with lawyer fees and clients going BK. Electrical contractor said he'll get somebody else...construction is substantially complete one is already occupied! AR for this guy is approximately $350k plus. I'm in limbo...any suggestions?

Thanks,

 

[GUNNING]

We completed electrical engineering for a design/build electrical contractor for the last 2-1/2 years. The three high-rise buildings are substantially completed and one is in occupancy now.

We basically got 5% of the total design fee. Mechanics Lien does not apply to consultants after 30 days of delivery. Of course the design services is on going through out the construction on a "fast track" scheme. Had a Demand Letter done, one GC agreed to get a two-party check for some payment. The Electrical contractor calls us about it. However, the amount is half what the GC said he's willing to pay. Should we accept the minimal payment, the General wants us to do the final sign off for the applications so they can do beneficial occupancy...nah. Now, the electrical contractor is claiming that the emergency lighting design was faulty and caused him more expense to correct so will back-charge our fee. I heard that the company is having money problems suppliers and the local IBEW.

I could go to court; but I had similar problem 13 years ago for the same amount; hired a lawyer who got paid more than what I was trying to collect... so I got hit with a double whammy with lawyer fees and clients going BK. Electrical contractor said he'll get somebody else...construction is substantially complete one is already occupied! AR for this guy is approximately $350k plus. I'm in limbo...any suggestions?

Thanks,

\
Dig in and fight,
Everyone is might as well join the fray.
Send invoices out with demand for payments to everyone on the job.
In sales you are only as good as your last sale. The collection will burn bridges but for $350k might as well. Look for a collection attorney that will do it for a % on contingency of collections. Get the electrician involved and make him prove it was you and not anyone else. Not word of mouth but black and white and pictures. A good attorney can drive you nuts, and because they are businesses you can talk to everyone involved from the receptionist to there supplier.
Dig in and fight, take notes, make changes, and do not do this again.

 

[Sierrasparky]

350k in the arrears. WOW!

 

[Fulthrotl]

We completed electrical engineering for a design/build electrical contractor for the last 2-1/2 years. The three high-rise buildings are substantially completed and one is in occupancy now.

We basically got 5% of the total design fee. Mechanics Lien does not apply to consultants after 30 days of delivery. Of course the design services is on going through out the construction on a "fast track" scheme. Had a Demand Letter done, one GC agreed to get a two-party check for some payment. The Electrical contractor calls us about it. However, the amount is half what the GC said he's willing to pay. Should we accept the minimal payment, the General wants us to do the final sign off for the applications so they can do beneficial occupancy...nah. Now, the electrical contractor is claiming that the emergency lighting design was faulty and caused him more expense to correct so will back-charge our fee. I heard that the company is having money problems suppliers and the local IBEW.

I could go to court; but I had similar problem 13 years ago for the same amount; hired a lawyer who got paid more than what I was trying to collect... so I got hit with a double whammy with lawyer fees and clients going BK. Electrical contractor said he'll get somebody else...construction is substantially complete one is already occupied! AR for this guy is approximately $350k plus. I'm in limbo...any suggestions?

Thanks,

firstly, ow.

second.... you say "However, the amount is half what the GC said he's willing to pay."
you mean he's willing to pay twice what you are asking for, or did you reverse it,
and he's willing to pay half what you are demanding?

do you have preliminary notices in place for this project?
not to beat a dead horse, but how did they get so far into you, not that it's any of my business.

i don't know what your total business volume is... half a loaf is better than none, even if it is
your whole pantry. it sounds like you've been down this road before, and survived it then,
but now is a different time, and 13 years ago, there was a lot more money floating around
than there is now, from what i've seen.

dunno who the players are, but i've got a pretty good hunch about the EC... if it's not one of the
bigger players, coop, sasquatch, or that ilk, it sounds like you've got an EC burning to the
waterline.

if suppliers liens are getting filed, and morover, mechanics liens filed from the IBEW,
especially for state indentured apprentices, etc..... if the local is wrapped up in it,
then health and welfare and pension money is in arrears, usually three months or more
for the job, before they get ugly.

from the cards i can see, if you can get a check for half the money within a week, i'd
grab it, and lick your wounds, especially if you don't have any recourse in this matter.

i'd talk to a good attorney if you haven't already. most of us here aren't members of
the bar, we just walk into one of them every so often.

good luck.

 

[growler]

350k in the arrears. WOW!

Buy a few beers with that, ah?

 

[petersonra]

sounds like you need some sound legal advice. you don't necessarily want to sue but just find out what your options really are.

you might be well advised to take what you can get while it is still available.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You need to ask a lawyer not a bunch of electricians etc. Please consult one as you may get very bad advice here.

 

[electric_cal]

We completed electrical engineering for a design/build electrical contractor for the last 2-1/2 years. The three high-rise buildings are substantially completed and one is in occupancy now.

We basically got 5% of the total design fee. Mechanics Lien does not apply to consultants after 30 days of delivery. Of course the design services is on going through out the construction on a "fast track" scheme. Had a Demand Letter done, one GC agreed to get a two-party check for some payment. The Electrical contractor calls us about it. However, the amount is half what the GC said he's willing to pay. Should we accept the minimal payment, the General wants us to do the final sign off for the applications so they can do beneficial occupancy...nah. Now, the electrical contractor is claiming that the emergency lighting design was faulty and caused him more expense to correct so will back-charge our fee. I heard that the company is having money problems suppliers and the local IBEW.

I could go to court; but I had similar problem 13 years ago for the same amount; hired a lawyer who got paid more than what I was trying to collect... so I got hit with a double whammy with lawyer fees and clients going BK. Electrical contractor said he'll get somebody else...construction is substantially complete one is already occupied! AR for this guy is approximately $350k plus. I'm in limbo...any suggestions?

Thanks,

You must pin your ears back, dig in, and fight! Looks like the GC is trying to bend you over and have his way with you! And that business about the emergency lighting design being faulty sounds like an easy weapon to through at you in order to muscle you into agreeing to sign for less then you are due. All of the other items you mention point to the fact that you need to take action now!


Get an attorney that is well versed in construction law. Have the attorney file a stop notice on the jobs at once. That will get everyones attention and give you breathing room. It's very possible that others involved in this will come togeather with you in a commen action. You need to get in front of this before you are left with nothing but pennies instead of dollars.


Good luck:thumbsup:

 

[petersonra]

You need to ask a lawyer not a bunch of electricians etc. Please consult one as you may get very bad advice here.

+10000000

You should have a lawyer on retainer anyway just for this kind of thing.

 

[kwired]

You need to ask a lawyer not a bunch of electricians etc. Please consult one as you may get very bad advice here.

But a bunch of electricians can come up with some pretty interesting and creative methods of dealing with the situation - though the OP likely could end up in jail if he follows many of them

 

[__dan]

But a bunch of electricians can come up with some pretty interesting and creative methods of dealing with the situation - though the OP likely could end up in jail if he follows many of them

In the old days, before my time, it was legal to arrive onsite and remove any of your work that was not paid for. Wish it was that way now, it would be so much easier.

It is certainly a case for an experienced construction attorney and not one or never one for attempting to do your own lawyering.

One thing I will suggest that may be legal and effective for leverage is that depending on the state law, the PE may be legally required for design and legally required to sign off for the CO (the "engineer of record"). If so, I would send a registered letter to the building official notifying him that there will be no PE signoff for the CO by the engineer of record because of non payment. I would probably be looking to hit them with additional code compliance requirements and citations of violations of their own making.

If they think they will never get the CO because of the punch list, the compliance hearings, or the payment litigation, you need something to get them to the table in an accommodating mood.

 

[Sierrasparky]

In the old days, before my time, it was legal to arrive onsite and remove any of your work that was not paid for. Wish it was that way now, it would be so much easier.

It is certainly a case for an experienced construction attorney and not one or never one for attempting to do your own lawyering.

One thing I will suggest that may be legal and effective for leverage is that depending on the state law, the PE may be legally required for design and legally required to sign off for the CO (the "engineer of record"). If so, I would send a registered letter to the building official notifying him that there will be no PE signoff for the CO by the engineer of record because of non payment. I would probably be looking to hit them with additional code compliance requirements and citations of violations of their own making.

If they think they will never get the CO because of the punch list, the compliance hearings, or the payment litigation, you need something to get them to the table in an accommodating mood.

Yea and then when the owner sues you because you are holding up the project and he had legitimate reasons for not paying it all becomes a cluster ****** , A big test of who has the bigger balls. Who has the bigger wallet. Once those wheels get started they do not stop.

You need to dig in but you need to know what you are in for also.
The ride to hell and back.

You think that Apartment in SF a burned a couple of weeks ago because of a little accident. I would bet that someone was not paid.
CARMA usually gets these scrupulous folks.

 

[kwired]

In the old days, before my time, it was legal to arrive onsite and remove any of your work that was not paid for. Wish it was that way now, it would be so much easier.

If I understand correctly OP is the PE for the project, how would he go about removing any of his work, even if he wanted to?

I don't know much about how things work on that side of the project, but can't imagine having a design that is released to the contractors for construction if only 5% of design fees have been paid, that one is confusing for me. In my eyes it would be no payment no design will be presented, or at least much more than 5% payment before anything remotely close to a final plan is released.

 

[Sierrasparky]

If I understand correctly OP is the PE for the project, how would he go about removing any of his work, even if he wanted to?

I don't know much about how things work on that side of the project, but can't imagine having a design that is released to the contractors for construction if only 5% of design fees have been paid, that one is confusing for me. In my eyes it would be no payment no design will be presented, or at least much more than 5% payment before anything remotely close to a final plan is released.

Pretty confusing to me.

 

[Fulthrotl]

If I understand correctly OP is the PE for the project, how would he go about removing any of his work, even if he wanted to?

I don't know much about how things work on that side of the project, but can't imagine having a design that is released to the contractors for construction if only 5% of design fees have been paid, that one is confusing for me. In my eyes it would be no payment no design will be presented, or at least much more than 5% payment before anything remotely close to a final plan is released.

white out in a spray gun?

i asked my EE about the short stroke on lien rights of thirty days, and in calif.
we were both pretty sure the statute for these instruments is a year to file,
and i doubt the legislature set a short time limits to specifically target
electrical engineers. maybe specific language in the contract he signed.

something is missing in this story, i think.

usually there is a schedule of payments to match the progression of the work.
and while we've all had situations where someone was several months to pay,
i'd a dropped anchor long before the water got this deep, but that is just me.

 

[Shoe]

Holding off on the CO is your only leverage point. What agreements were "in-writing" as far as your fee is concerned? I assume you had a signed agreement representend as a lump-sum.

As far as the emergency lighting, assuming you designed to code, your design is your design. You can't be held accountable for additional requirements the local AHJ may enact. That is a discussion between the AHJ and the Contractor/Owner.