Can anyone ID this cable?

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Nutmegger

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Fairfield County, Connecticut
Had a feeder upgrade job for a detached shed.
We ended up re-doing the whole thing "the right way" -- buried rigid, pulled thwn-2

What the customer had in place before was a rather strange looking cable buried directly -- attaching the picture.
According to him, "an electrician" told him that the old cable was "legit" and suitable for direct burial.
I doubt it.. I doubt even whether this is a recognized Chapter 3 cable.
Anyone seen one of these?
 

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texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Nutmegger said:
Had a feeder upgrade job for a detached shed.
We ended up re-doing the whole thing "the right way" -- buried rigid, pulled thwn-2

What the customer had in place before was a rather strange looking cable buried directly -- attaching the picture.
According to him, "an electrician" told him that the old cable was "legit" and suitable for direct burial.
I doubt it.. I doubt even whether this is a recognized Chapter 3 cable.
Anyone seen one of these?
Click to expand...

Submersible pump cable.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Nutmegger said:
Can it be buried directly though?
And, what's with the strange coloring -- red black and yellow? And, no ground?
Click to expand...
Can't be used for anything except for inside a well casing to connect a submersible pump, that is all it is listed for.

Is probably an older cable with no equipment grounding conductor. You would have a hard time finding the same cable without special ordering it anyway today that didn't have a green conductor.
 
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Nutmegger

Senior Member
Location
Fairfield County, Connecticut
Thanks guys.
I had a feeling that the client thought we sold him an upgrade "just because". Then again, "legal" or not, the old cable was buried only 10" deep.
This certainly helps -- sub pump cable, not suitable for direct burial.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Nutmegger said:
Thanks guys.
I had a feeling that the client thought we sold him an upgrade "just because". Then again, "legal" or not, the old cable was buried only 10" deep.
This certainly helps -- sub pump cable, not suitable for direct burial.
Click to expand...
Add not suitable for anything but the connection of submersible pump motors. That includes running the cable from say a house out to the well location. Many well drillers seem to think they can run this cable for such application but it is not listed for anything besides for use within a well casing to bring power to the pump motor. Once you leave that well casing you need to adapt to a wiring method suitable for the application outside the well casing. I have even seen them run that kind of cable through a building - like it was NM cable then exit the building and bury it to the well location.
 
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GoldDigger

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Presumably you have a reasonable allowance of raceway and/or box in which to make the transition? Or does the splice have to be inside the well casing too?
:)

Tapatalk!
 
Jraef

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
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Nutmegger said:
Can it be buried directly though?
And, what's with the strange coloring -- red black and yellow? And, no ground?
Click to expand...

Color coding is done that way because in many submersibles, the pump is 3 phase, even if they don't tell you, and the "controller" has a phase adder in it. So in the instructions you MUST connect the colors to the terminals marked for those colors, otherwise the pump runs backward. They all, for the most part, use the same cable and matching terminal designations. Because of that, even if it IS a single phase pump, they use the same cable and terminal designations even if one wire is not used.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Jraef said:
Color coding is done that way because in many submersibles, the pump is 3 phase, even if they don't tell you, and the "controller" has a phase adder in it. So in the instructions you MUST connect the colors to the terminals marked for those colors, otherwise the pump runs backward. They all, for the most part, use the same cable and matching terminal designations. Because of that, even if it IS a single phase pump, they use the same cable and terminal designations even if one wire is not used.
Click to expand...

Maybe for larger applications but as I understand it in most home applications the third wire has to do with a start capacitor or some such thing.

Here is a pretty typically controller.

812ewPUMPpic2.jpg
 
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kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
iwire said:
Maybe for larger applications but as I understand it in most home applications the third wire has to do with a start capacitor or some such thing.

Here is a pretty typically controller.

812ewPUMPpic2.jpg
Click to expand...
Yes that is what is common for small domestic wells. If it is a three phase version they still use the same lead colors though.

The control box is nothing more than a potential relay and a start capacitor - and usually a thermal overload is in there as well. The potential relay drops out the start capacitor just like it does for a lot of hermetic compressor applications after the motor reaches a certain speed. The three leads to the motor are a common lead and a lead to the main winding and a lead to the aux winding. Above 1 hp typically the aux winding still remains in the circuit after the start capacitor drops out and a run capacitor is still in series with the aux winding after starting is completed.
 
StarCat

StarCat

Industrial Engineering Tech
Location
Moab, UT USA
Occupation
Imdustrial Engineering Technician - HVACR Electrical and Mechanical Systems
Pump Cable

Pump Cable

Many I have run are single phase and those colors tie into a start component box which matches. Pretty.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
PetrosA said:
Is that what that is? I always thought it was a lightning arrestor! ;)
Click to expand...
Actually if you look at the pump information they usually claim there is lightning protection in the pump motor itself, though I don't really know just what it consists of, maybe some MOV's across the windings or from winding to the case maybe.
 
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texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
iwire said:
Maybe for larger applications but as I understand it in most home applications the third wire has to do with a start capacitor or some such thing.

Here is a pretty typically controller.

812ewPUMPpic2.jpg
Click to expand...

Since it is not practical to put the start capacitor and a centrifugal switch in a single phase submersible, the start cap. is above ground in the control box. To control the cap. a potential relay is used to drop out the start cap. as the motor comes up to speed. This is the reason for the third conductor on a single phase submersible.
Black is L1, Yellow is L2 and the red is used for the start cap.
 
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