kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Probably not, and I guess there wouldn't be much to live for if I had, yet I doubt every dead person has "seen it all" :happyyes:Well then, guess you haven't seen it all, have you?
Top 10 expensive screwups.
- Thread starter darekelec
- Start date
- Status
Ragin Cajun
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate S.C.
I am on the design side.
On a recient project, we rejected the lighting submittals at least three times. Drawings clearly specified specific, qulality, dimming, T5 fixtures with ~90% efficiency and Lutron occcupancy dimmers with Pico remotes. The first submittal had cheap ,65% efficiient fixtures and no dimming. The contractor fought me every submittal until he finally realized I was absolutely going to stand my ground.
Have also rejected most panelboard submittals at least once because the contractors didn't read bold, underlined requirements clearly shown on the drawings. Most of the suppliers are now wise to our requirements, but it took way too long to get through to them.
RC
On a recient project, we rejected the lighting submittals at least three times. Drawings clearly specified specific, qulality, dimming, T5 fixtures with ~90% efficiency and Lutron occcupancy dimmers with Pico remotes. The first submittal had cheap ,65% efficiient fixtures and no dimming. The contractor fought me every submittal until he finally realized I was absolutely going to stand my ground.
Have also rejected most panelboard submittals at least once because the contractors didn't read bold, underlined requirements clearly shown on the drawings. Most of the suppliers are now wise to our requirements, but it took way too long to get through to them.
RC
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Do you specify model numbers and throw in "or equivalent"? Or just your specifications and let them choose from those specifications?
Never really had a high-dollar screw-up myself, but I've been on jobs where the following happened:
New school, fire alarm system was not commissioned, but HVAC guys turned on the heating system. Since the fire dampers were closed, they blew up a lot of their ductwork.
3-story motel, addressible fire alarm system. Someone terminated the 120v supply on the screws for the detection system. Every pull, smoke, heat, duct etc. had to be replaced.
Digging a pier for a street light, the guy operating the derrick truck was digging exactly where he was told. Hit a 24" water main and barely got the truck out before the street collapsed.
Trenching around a parking lot for a motel, stinger got hold of the plastic gas line that ran under the (concreted) parking lot. Line was so new, it was not marked by locators. Gas company tried to hit us up for it, but backed down and replaced it (and part of the parking lot) on their dime.
And the Real Biggie: (This is true, I swear!) Old, 3-story house, had been converted to 6 apartments over the years. City got hold of it and was converting back to SFD. Walked out to van parked on street, and found water running along curb. Then more water. And more water. Pretty soon, I had to step out of the torrent. Plumbers were digging in new supply and broke the water main with their bucket. An hour after the city repaired it, they hit two fiber optic lines. Oops. No 911 for 3 counties. And if their day hadn't gone bad enough, here's the real kick-in-the-pants: Coming back from lunch, I turned the corner and saw a blue haze in the air. Thinking someone was burning yard debris, I parked and got out. I immediately was hit by the strong smell of natural gas.
Yep... plumbers hit the gas line. And not just any gas line.... a high-pressure line. Oh, and that's not all. Nearby was a commercial construction site that was doing dirt work. Since they didn't have access off the main streets, they got permission from the city to use one side street for the dump trucks to enter, and another side street for them to exit. No exceptions. So, when the plumbers hit the gas line, they effectively shut that job down 'cuz the gas company closed off all the streets in the area.
So the plumbers were on the hook for the water main break, the 2 fiber optic lines, and the gas line fiasco. That included the repair, paying for the lost gas (yes, they can calculate the amount of gas lost and bill accordingly), as well as the two operators on the job site and 18 dump truck drivers who had to sit for several hours.
New school, fire alarm system was not commissioned, but HVAC guys turned on the heating system. Since the fire dampers were closed, they blew up a lot of their ductwork.
3-story motel, addressible fire alarm system. Someone terminated the 120v supply on the screws for the detection system. Every pull, smoke, heat, duct etc. had to be replaced.
Digging a pier for a street light, the guy operating the derrick truck was digging exactly where he was told. Hit a 24" water main and barely got the truck out before the street collapsed.
Trenching around a parking lot for a motel, stinger got hold of the plastic gas line that ran under the (concreted) parking lot. Line was so new, it was not marked by locators. Gas company tried to hit us up for it, but backed down and replaced it (and part of the parking lot) on their dime.
And the Real Biggie: (This is true, I swear!) Old, 3-story house, had been converted to 6 apartments over the years. City got hold of it and was converting back to SFD. Walked out to van parked on street, and found water running along curb. Then more water. And more water. Pretty soon, I had to step out of the torrent. Plumbers were digging in new supply and broke the water main with their bucket. An hour after the city repaired it, they hit two fiber optic lines. Oops. No 911 for 3 counties. And if their day hadn't gone bad enough, here's the real kick-in-the-pants: Coming back from lunch, I turned the corner and saw a blue haze in the air. Thinking someone was burning yard debris, I parked and got out. I immediately was hit by the strong smell of natural gas.
Yep... plumbers hit the gas line. And not just any gas line.... a high-pressure line. Oh, and that's not all. Nearby was a commercial construction site that was doing dirt work. Since they didn't have access off the main streets, they got permission from the city to use one side street for the dump trucks to enter, and another side street for them to exit. No exceptions. So, when the plumbers hit the gas line, they effectively shut that job down 'cuz the gas company closed off all the streets in the area.
So the plumbers were on the hook for the water main break, the 2 fiber optic lines, and the gas line fiasco. That included the repair, paying for the lost gas (yes, they can calculate the amount of gas lost and bill accordingly), as well as the two operators on the job site and 18 dump truck drivers who had to sit for several hours.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I've had days that felt like that before, but probably were not nearly as costly as that instance.
Did they call whatever one call agency as required - or was this long enough ago that was not the normal practice? About the only thing that could have been added that is just as disastrous would be for them to hit some medium voltage line on top of everything else.
I heard of a POCO hitting a high pressure gas line (800 PSI) once in a wet land area when they were drilling a hole for setting a pole. This wet land had high water table and supposedly there was water shooting several feet into the air being propelled by the high pressure gas. Once when I was crossing a 800 PSI line the gas company wanted to be there while I was excavating, their guys even crawled into the hole to hand dig near the line and tell me where I should take the next bite with the backhoe until we had that thing exposed, which was fine with me. Have had similar experiences a few times with major fiber optic lines - company sent out a guy to help me expose the line when I was going to be crossing it.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Haven't had too many screw ups myself that were too terribly expensive overall, some that maybe were costly in comparison to the repair or alteration that was attempted though, and seen some mistakes by others that were maybe pretty costly.
When I was pretty new to the trade, a local school had an elevator installed in an older multi story building to comply with ADA.
This was done in the summer months when not much activity was going on in the school. The out of area electricians apparently never heard of a delta system with high leg - and did some moving of items to accommodate what they needed to add to the gear, in mean time not realizing there was a leg that had higher voltage to neutral and it of course did not get moved so that the high leg was still feeding the same conductor it originally was feeding on some feeders. Probably was not too terribly expensive, but kind of a big mistake anyway, I know I was asked to replace several lighting ballasts that were damaged, but I was a young apprentice at the time and really don't know what was all damaged either, could have been a lot of plugged in equipment that I knew nothing about as well.
Another story involving high leg delta systems - and this one was the fault of the POCO. This was in a cattle feed yard and they had a service near a shop building that was open delta. It also supplied several area lights typical pole mounted mercury vapor lights like you see for street lighting ran throughout the feed yard. The primary was underground and went bad, after POCO repaired it they connected a rotation meter to verify rotation but did not check to make sure the high leg was in the correct position to match the existing equipment. I had just gone through the yard and repaired or replaced many lights not long before this as well - this was kind of a annual thing to just go and fix whatever lights did not work at the time. I ended up replacing some of the lights that I knew were ones I had repaired or replaced and then some. Also had to replace some lighting ballasts in the shop, control transformers in heating equipment in the shop and in a overhead door opener, and maybe a few other miscellaneous items needed repaired.
When I was pretty new to the trade, a local school had an elevator installed in an older multi story building to comply with ADA.
This was done in the summer months when not much activity was going on in the school. The out of area electricians apparently never heard of a delta system with high leg - and did some moving of items to accommodate what they needed to add to the gear, in mean time not realizing there was a leg that had higher voltage to neutral and it of course did not get moved so that the high leg was still feeding the same conductor it originally was feeding on some feeders. Probably was not too terribly expensive, but kind of a big mistake anyway, I know I was asked to replace several lighting ballasts that were damaged, but I was a young apprentice at the time and really don't know what was all damaged either, could have been a lot of plugged in equipment that I knew nothing about as well.
Another story involving high leg delta systems - and this one was the fault of the POCO. This was in a cattle feed yard and they had a service near a shop building that was open delta. It also supplied several area lights typical pole mounted mercury vapor lights like you see for street lighting ran throughout the feed yard. The primary was underground and went bad, after POCO repaired it they connected a rotation meter to verify rotation but did not check to make sure the high leg was in the correct position to match the existing equipment. I had just gone through the yard and repaired or replaced many lights not long before this as well - this was kind of a annual thing to just go and fix whatever lights did not work at the time. I ended up replacing some of the lights that I knew were ones I had repaired or replaced and then some. Also had to replace some lighting ballasts in the shop, control transformers in heating equipment in the shop and in a overhead door opener, and maybe a few other miscellaneous items needed repaired.
Ragin Cajun
Senior Member
- Location
- Upstate S.C.
Had both specific model numbers for each fixture plus % efficiency and typical CU's, and had the phrase "or specifically approved equal or better" clause. Had to have that since it was a city government project. I knew at least two vendors could meet the specs, didn't take the time to look for more.
Also had three listed vendors for the panelboards, no exceptions. They submitted a forth vendor who I rejectedd outright without looking at the submittal except to see the vendor was not one of the three allowed.
RC
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Had a plumber, in the next town over, soldering in a new apartment complex. He didn't have a fire extinguisher and caught the wall on fire. Ended up burning down the whole complex almost, along with a fire truck that got put in a bad position during the fire.
That'll mess your week up. :happyyes:
That'll mess your week up. :happyyes:
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Speaking of plumbers, I don't know how many times I have seen a plumber turn of main water valve at the end of the day in a new building not quite completed and saying something to the effect that they wouldn't want something to start leaking while no one is there.
Every time that happens I am usually thinking it is better for it to leak now then after everything is done and owner/occupant moves their things in, the expensive part is usually all those personal things that get damaged more so than a little drywall that may need repaired.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Yep and they always seem to want to do that on a Friday evening.
No damage resulted but when a 1200 lb capacity Hoshizaki ice machine was moved to a new farm shop they called a friend of mine because it was not working, was a 208-230V 1? machine & the machines board was signaling a "high voltage" fault, line voltage was around 240V, & he was stumped & asked me, the only thing I could think of was the high leg, & when he went back & checked that was the case, Hoshizaki 208-230V rated 1? machines require a neutral because the water pump,condenser fan motor, & other items are 120V, the electrician had connected the high leg to the leg going directly to the compressor & not to the side supplying the 120 volt components, & the board goes into alarm at 141 volts. The EC was saved from buying a ice machine because of pure luck, even though this one was a relic, a 10 year old ice machine is a antique.
Since it was a farm shop, PG&E loves to supply 120/240V 3? for AG services.
Since it was a farm shop, PG&E loves to supply 120/240V 3? for AG services.
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